Replies: 43 Comments
on Sunday, November 30th, busby seo test said
yeah tahnks for the post
on Thursday, November 27th, Fashion Jewelry said
My wife and I are both artists and collectors. My wife is the full time artist trying to run a business and I am a part time artist with a full time job.
First as collectors: We have a favorite artist whom we have collected for a few years while living in Seattle - Javier Orttega (www.orttega.net). He recently had an exhibition and we decided to not purchase a painting we both loved, because we could not afford it. 6 months ago, I would not have thought twice about spending $400 to $750 on a painting even though nearly every inch of wall space is covered with art. There is always room for one more beautiful work of art ... Well, not right now. My confidence is pretty fragile and I have to see sanity return to the world before I will start spending on art again.
Now as artists: The economy is painful and while I guess people will still go out and spend money on an I-Phone, they are not spending it on art glass or jewelry. We are coming up on the shopping season and gratefully, sales are picking up a tiny bit. Jewelry, fashion and art is not a priority for many people and it is showing in our sales. People are scared and even $20 can make a difference in someones budget. Consumerism is a shallow philosophy, but a complete stopping hurts everyone. We are lucky, we will not lose our studio and can ride through these tough times, I only hope other artists will be able to do the same.
on Thursday, November 27th, Fashion Jewelry said
My wife and I are both artists and collectors. My wife is the full time artist trying to run a business and I am a part time artist with a full time job.
First as collectors: We have a favorite artist whom we have collected for a few years while living in Seattle - Javier Orttega (www.orttega.net). He recently had an exhibition and we decided to not purchase a painting we both loved, because we could not afford it. 6 months ago, I would not have thought twice about spending $400 to $750 on a painting even though nearly every inch of wall space is covered with art. There is always room for one more beautiful work of art ... Well, not right now. My confidence is pretty fragile and I have to see sanity return to the world before I will start spending on art again.
Now as artists: The economy is painful and while I guess people will still go out and spend money on an I-Phone, they are not spending it on art glass or jewelry. We are coming up on the shopping season and gratefully, sales are picking up a tiny bit. Jewelry, fashion and art is not a priority for many people and it is showing in our sales. People are scared and even $20 can make a difference in someones budget. Consumerism is a shallow philosophy, but a complete stopping hurts everyone. We are lucky, we will not lose our studio and can ride through these tough times, I only hope other artists will be able to do the same.
on Sunday, November 2nd, Andrew said
Maybe economic crises affect artists who stay in one place, but I have´not seen any of that because I move. Sometimes I sell, and sometimes I dont. I could not survive without moving. Joe, hard times are only hard if you tell yourself they are. A big commission is a rare thing, and for our government, sponsoring something uplifting works because its cost is a drop in the bucket to them, and the effect on the people much more than many more costly things they could do.
One door closes, and another opens up. We as artists have tremendous opportunities right now if we open our creative eyes and look in unexpected places to find them
on Friday, October 24th, Joe said
Ahhh... a few months grace has been obtained...I can breathe again! No fear no gain?
on Friday, October 24th, Ellen said
On an up note (and according to my publisher: ever optimistic): If there are dark times in the economy, people stay home. Therefore, they seek to enhance their surroundings. Just like the murals that were done in the 30's and the old magazine covers that were framed as a source of hope during that time, art will survive because it celebrates the human spirit.
on Wednesday, October 22nd, Joe said
Here is escape-ism...
ha ha ha....
................ to the moon, Alice!
....
.......... youtube.com/watch?v=pl-5MRBJtq4
....
..
.
on Wednesday, October 22nd, Joe said
Corbin wrote of escapism in his blog and also suggested new work may arise from the economic downturn. I expressed fear, unshared by the other posters, of the economic crisis and truly showed what may happen to me, which is, lose the studio. I also posted a link to a video that was filmed by CBS 8 years ago. Due to the economic crisis, I may be giving it my last shot. I rebuilt and reconfigured that unit. If I'm going to lose the studio, I'm going out big! See, in order to achieve teleportation and time travel, you must first build apparatus that manufactures a unique, mostly unexplored energy source. Oh, we need new energy, don't we!
I too say let's quit bickering.
The proof is in the pudding.
Don't talk the talk if ya can't walk the walk!
Here is my escapism and unique art.....
youtube.com/watch?v=m2_A38WQeCg
(video taken of new unit and will be up on Youtube soon...broadband problems)
Where's yours?
.
.
on Wednesday, October 22nd, walt said
Mat and Brad, I agree. I apologize for allowing myself to be drawn into what even I consider to be a silly argument. That's why I'm dropping out of it at this point.
on Wednesday, October 22nd, Brad said
I wish AA would provide a Moderator for at least this one primary column they offer - Most of the most professional Blog sites do. We will never see the fruit of this blog column effort at its best (consistently) as long a raging egos are allowed to deflower it by ranting off subject, and believing over how their POV's should be NYTimes material. People are looking for maturity and ideas. Free speech has its limits - when it loses your respect of this - for allowing madness to rule instead - your audience goes to truer ground far from here...
on Wednesday, October 22nd, awesomeimages said
I think there's going to be some very creative pieces come out of this "money drought". I've always seen some of the best stuff come out of artists who really have something to put into it instead the need of making money. I can see many of the lesser selling artists getting a 2nd job, or maintaining their current 2nd job, and making a few heart-felt masterpieces that wouldn't have come about in other conditions.
The other thing is about the near-priceless works of art losing their value. There's a completely different mindset in people spending $100 million on a painting compared to the "average" paintings sold in galleries. I think there's a pricing sector that will be hurt badly, but probably closer to the lower end.
on Wednesday, October 22nd, busby seo test said
when art and the art world is in flux that's the time for new ideas to take hold. And yes, it was during the Great Depression that the Abstract Expressionists were born and raised. During a time when no one was buying much they were able to do something they wanted to do without fear of selling or not selling...they weren't going to sell no matter what they did at that point. So it became a great period of experimentation.
this blog is very interesting and educational and at the same time very entertaining!
on Wednesday, October 22nd, matt said
This comment area is nothing more than a battle ground of mainly two egos. It's no wonder, in my opinion, we see very few people actually making comments anymore. Many moons ago, some of this sandbox arguing was entertaining since it was so novel. It has become tiring, distasteful, and childish. It is pathedic.
on Tuesday, October 21st, Joe said
Lightweight? Feather in the wind?
Ha ha!
Just copy below and paste in browser address window and press enter
youtube.com/watch?v=m2_A38WQeCg
Videos of the current ship are comming. Stay tuned!
on Tuesday, October 21st, bmm said
Lightweights always have to have the last word - joe is articulate - but his gravităs is but a feather in a hurricane.
on Monday, October 20th, Joe said
This article was written by an art collector and we have had some teachers respond to it. Both of these groups, the collectors and the teachers DO NOT know how the economic down turn hurts artists, and I mean real artists! The ones that live solely and purely from only the sale of their work. The ones who put their entire soul into what they do. We're the ones getting hurt!
The writer of this article makes a bad economy look like an under lit tennis match. The teacher who has responded, is insulated from any economic events because he sold his soul to the school he teaches at long ago. The teacher lives by sucking on the feeding bottle, his school. The teacher does not depend on sales of his art to live. Stop me...
Let's talk fear! I'll tell ya fear... fear is not knowing wether or not the only art you will be making next week is the cardboard sign you'll be holding up asking for change cause yer just about to lose absolutely fricken everything unless you make a god damn sale.
you people are patsies...screw off
on Monday, October 20th, Joe said
What teachers don't lack at all, is ego! Most of the work they make is pretty safe because lets face it, they have to hold down their jobs. People believe the teachers in everything the teacher says, because hey, they are teachers! NYC is cultured enough to know that teachers are bled dry by students, have jobs, and are not real contributors to new art. But the outlying cities do not know this. The outlying cities believe the teachers. The teachers get most of the shows and rob sales from the true artists. Let's face it, how many teachers ever climb to investment value?
I have been discriminated against in the town I share with Walter. I didn't go to or teach at any schools or art schools around here for one, A lot of my art is unique, and I'm bi-polar. Blammo! I'm out!
I'm glad I didn't sell my soul and was kept from teaching. Someone up there chose the most difficult path there is for me!
This is experimentation...
youtube.com/watch?v=m2_A38WQeCg
on Monday, October 20th, walt said
thank you Mark for bringing this discussion to an end.
on Monday, October 20th, Mark said
Who is right? teacher? Full time artist? Both? Is it better to teach and create, or just create? Should one be taken more seriously then the other?
This is an old argument and it seems it has taken place between Walt and Joe before, here at this blog. Come on guys, you are not going to agree. Leave it be.
As to the AE, I think you both have good points. I also feel there was a cetain amount of natural progression there, as well as 'what hasn't been done befor?' Much of what is new is created because an artist is trying to stand out, do something that wasn't done befor, as simple as that, not always as deep as some think. Not always but sometimes.
Find your centers guys. Peace.
on Monday, October 20th, Joe said
Funny how when something is true for a very long time, the truth can now be disguised as being a "cliche". Truth be told, a majority of teachers are bled dry by their students. Hans Hoffman is a unique exception.
on Sunday, October 19th, walt said
I happen to agree with you Joe that flight from reality had something to do with the depression artists. But a large number of them dealt with the human issues generated by the depression. the public seemed as interested in both. As to your other ideas about the soul of art you haven't commented on the artists I mentioned who both taught and made art. I completely disagree with you on what has been a cliche for a very long time. some of the best painters of the depression both taught and painted. Hans Hoffman didn't have a solo show until the early 60's yet he taught well into the 50's. And what he did back then predated Pollack's drip paintings. Often the teacher gets it first then it is popularized by the so called pure artist. I'm sorry I just don't see the facts supporting your point of view.
on Sunday, October 19th, Joe said
There are 3 options when it comes to a person making art.
1. Fulltime professional who pours heart and soul and every hour into making and selling their art.
2. Spend your time and give away your soul while telling others how to make art (teaching), and make art in your spare time.
3. Make art in your spare time.
Back on subject, the depression did not foster experimentation due to the slowdown of sales. The depression fostered flight from reality, the need to escape reality and the harshness of the depression. Escapism becomes quite popular during economic downturns. I personally feel that one who is insulated from the economy, as teachers are, does not have the sensitivity towards the enviroment to render any important new aspects to the art world.
on Sunday, October 19th, olga said
Joe, how you do it? Through Internet or from your studio? I sold just 2 paintings this year...
on Sunday, October 19th, Joe said
Numbers Walt...don't avoid the numbers... I sell more pieces in a month then you do in 3 years!
on Saturday, October 18th, walt said
c'mon Joe, I've seen your space. you have tons of old stuff that no one will buy. Who are you kidding?
on Saturday, October 18th, j said
test
on Saturday, October 18th, Joe said
Oh yeah, the classic "I don't need the money" version of selling art. I don't need the money because I teach so I'll ramp up the prices of my work. Since I don't need the money, my work must be better, after all, the prices are higher.
Meanwhile, Walt, you have attics full of paintings that sit and sit and sit because your prices are too high. Your high inventory becomes a burden to your offspring when you die.
The only true way an artist knows his work is liked is when it sells. All the compliments don't mean a dang thing unless they buy it. People will say anything, it's what they do, buy it, that counts.
I admit to selling cheap sometimes because I get off on the rush of absolutely knowing that someone likes my work. I get a rush in having my work in yet another collection!
So lets talk numbers Walt! How many did you sell the past 30 days? How many do you think you have sold in your teacher career?
Teachers piss me off for two reasons. 1. Those who can do, those who can't, teach. Teaching is not making a living from the art they make. The second reason is because I was Deans list and full art scholarship at Kent State Univerisity and after 3 years, they kicked me out of school for having bi-polar disorder. I was a starving artist for 8 years after being thrown out and couldn't afford attorneys to sue their butts!
Anyone think I can still sue after 20 years please write to me at davidsmith1010@yahoo.com
on Friday, October 17th, walt said
I agree Brad. In the end it is what it is, you get what you get and make the best of it.
Joe, you really don't know anything about me or my work. I've had better sales this year than last. And I did ok last year. No, I don't duplicate my teaching pay via my art. But I do get better prices for what I do than you. I'm talking about the fine art original artifact. I also still get some Illustration assignments from time to time which pay very well and gee, I get to keep the original art and sell it again if I like. And except for the web site I don't make much of an effort nor do I have to since much more effort would have to follow and I don't have that kind of time to give it for a while longer. that will change when I'm finally in a position to retire.
And of course I experiment all the time.
While you struggle to get by I'm building a rep around the states and around the world. Don't be so arrogant and quick to assume that only you have it right.
Ok, let's see who was teaching at the time Phillip Guston, Gorky, Hans Hoffman, Clifford Still, David Park, Jackson Pollack covered classes at the Art Students League for Thomas Hart Benton when he was away doing large mural commissions around the country...is that enough to suggest that teaching has been part of the tradition or do I need to do more? Granted some of the Ab Ex painters didn't teach in institutional circumstances but did do so in local clubs, cutural centers or their own studios.
Other famous teachers at the time and previously included Ben Shahn, Joseph Albers, Grace Hartigan...Paul Klee, Matisse (although he didn't like it and quit the Beaux Arts in Paris after a couple years) Kandinsky, and many others at the Bau Haus in Germany. I don't know Joe, were any of them any good? Where they real artists?
on Friday, October 17th, Brad Michael Moore said
American's have been a proud people. We've been through hard times. Because of people with a talent for word and image - we, today, better understand struggles of old. With, and sometimes, without the means to survive, the urge to express will continue - no matter if there is help, or not, food to eat, or not - a way to survive the long run, or not... No one of us travels the same path, or suffers, or enjoys, the lack of - or the many found fruits of their labor. Life just is… You make of it what you can - no matter how poorly, or well, things are going around you. It is always up to others to find your fingerprints after you are gone - what happens from that point, and why - is a debate for another time.
on Friday, October 17th, Joe said
Tell ya what Walt, since you are the teacher, why don't you find out how many of the Abstract Expressionist fore fathers and originators had teaching jobs during the depression. Your argument is that since sales were down, they experimented. I say experimentation only comes with freedom especially financial freedom. You being a teacher, you know exactly what it's like to live financially free without sales.
on Friday, October 17th, Joe said
Few, if any, art movements start with the brush on the canvass. Ideas are born conceptually and transferred to the medium. Who has bigger think tanks, one artist, or the govt.? A couple conversations in a pub and art can be directed in any path. Well, I will say, it was much easier to do back then then it is now.
Your original statement was that the depression fostered experimentation resulting in Abstract Expressionism. The depression provided suffrage of which some acts of expression broke from the norm. Experimentation? No! A.E. was a result of the need to escape the harsh reality of the depression coupled with some prodding via the CIA.
I gave you the option to opt out using semantics, change the word experimentation for another, but instead you kept sticking your tongue in that hole in your cheek. See a doctor about that!
on Friday, October 17th, walt said
Isn't that what we are talking about? And I was being facetious in using a literal reading. Tongue in cheek is in fact a form of creativity. Its a twisting of the idea to get one to rethink from a different point of view. It was based on the thought that if the CIA had that much to do with it all then they must have been the artists themselves. Which of course is absurd. Absurdity is a form of humor.
on Thursday, October 16th, Joe said
I'm always amazed at literal interpretation especially from supposed creative minds. No, the artists themselves were not agents. Ideas can easily be planted. I say this from experience for 16 years ago I received some papers from a source that was back tracked to a "high" source, and they sparked a whole area of my art.
Bad economies are bad for art. Art needs to be jump started just like an economy. Plant some ideas in the minds of a few, and presto, an art movement! A new art movement helps the public's mind to look forward to better times.
on Thursday, October 16th, walt said
Somehow I can't see de Kooning, Pollack, Rothko or Kline as clandestine agents. But ok. I'll humor you. Whatever makes your paranoia feel...er... justified. Maybe the agents snuck in at night after they were all drunk and painted their work for them. For all you know I'm an agent. No I really am an agent for the CIA. Do you realize how silly this sounds???
on Thursday, October 16th, Joe said
It's a shame CIA files are never opened like FBI files are. How do we know wether or not those originating abstract expressionist ideas were indeed induced solely by CIA agents? Reminds me of that ellusive federal Office of Perception Management. The govt. most definetly had their hands in the arts with the WPA projects. I don't think it would be out of hand for A.E. to originate clandestinly.
on Thursday, October 16th, walt said
Actually this is what I said...
It was after the fact that any government sponsorship kicked in. As you say exhibitions, sales and accolades were what the CIA added to the mix.
on Thursday, October 16th, Joe said
You contradict your own statements, Walt! Now you say AFTER the depression the entire face of art changes whereas before you said DURING the depression. Sounds to me like you are standing next to a revolving door!
After the depression art changed due to increase in economic activity. During was suffering for all, plain and simple. Walt, if you ever held down a studio on your sales alone you would know that during an economic downtown...it gets tough... and experimentation is not really the focus. Survival is.
Experimentation is perhaps a wrong word choice Walt. Experimentation is most often brought about during happy moods. Survival is brought about mostly in bleak moods. Hence, any radical departures of style during the depression could more aptly be attributed to survival, portrayel of angst, and need for escape.
on Thursday, October 16th, walt said
Going into the depression many artists had fairly set styles that hadn't changed in some time. It sold pretty well too. Its the stuff people laugh at today from that time period. After the depression the entire face of visual art in America had changed. I stand by my statement.
on Thursday, October 16th, Joe said
Walt, maybe YOU missed the point. WORKING artists experiment all the time! Try it some time! When pictures are placed upon the refridgerator, it pushes the child to make more.
"The depression gave artists time to experiment," is an absolutely ridiculous statement. What would they be doing if there was not a depression? I would have to say that a vast majority of artists in that period had far less time for their art due to their struggle to survive. Why don't you give up that cushy teacher job Walty and come on out into the real world with us REAL artists! Then maybe you'll rethink your statements!
on Thursday, October 16th, Mark said
Government and art? CIA and art? What a scarry thought. Hard times may allow an artist to experiment due to the fact that sales may take a second place, but to most working artists sales are not that great anyway, in good times, so why not experiment all the time. I do.
on Wednesday, October 15th, walt said
Joe, maybe you missed the point. The CIA didn't create the art. It only helped it get a following. The artists themselves still weathered the early part of the depression in their studios during which time they worked out and defined their ideas. It was after the fact that any government sponsorship kicked in. As you say exhibitions, sales and accolades were what the CIA added to the mix. But I didn't say it was the economy that caused Ab Ex's success. Just gave them the time to experiment.
on Wednesday, October 15th, Joe said
The Abstract Expressionists were supported by the C.I.A. to help spread westernism, with emphasis on/in eastern europe. Exhibitions, sales, accolades, were all highly pumped up by agents of the C.I.A. Economics had little part of A.E.'s rise.
on Wednesday, October 15th, walt said
Michael, I've often said that when art and the art world is in flux that's the time for new ideas to take hold. And yes, it was during the Great Depression that the Abstract Expressionists were born and raised. During a time when no one was buying much they were able to do something they wanted to do without fear of selling or not selling...they weren't going to sell no matter what they did at that point. So it became a great period of experimentation.
