[Previous entry: "Workaholism?"] [Next entry: "ARTCHICAGO"]

04/30/2007: "WHY COMMUNITIES SHOULD SUPPORT THEIR LOCAL ARTISTS" by Walter King

Art is how we envision our future and remember our past…

It is the operation of human minds on our physical reality…

It is the sacrifice of our poverty and the reward of our wealth….

It is how we make sense of and design the world in which we live…

It is a mirror for self reflection, a reflection of the individual as well as the societal soul…

It is how we reach beyond reality into spirituality.


I was asked to give a lecture to a local community group on this subject a few weeks ago. I began roughing out the talk and want to test it with readers here on Absolutearts.com Do realize that this was originally written for community movers and shakers in a small up and coming Columbus annex. Here at absolutearts I’m simply preaching to the choir. But your opinions are valuable to me all the same.

Let me begin with four or five examples that will serve as illustrations.

Now if I just described a green woman standing by the water wearing a tiara, dressed in a sheet holding a birthday card you might well ask if she’d taken her meds that morning and might even call the squad on your cell phone.

But imagine the United States without the Statue of Liberty lifting her torch above the New York and New Jersey Harbors. Lady Liberty stands for so many of the things we believe in. How is that? We don’t wear the kind of clothes she wears. Does anyone really know what it says in the plaque she holds? It says July fourth 1776 in Roman numerals. Who uses Roman numerals anymore? For that matter who carries flaming torches anymore. We use flashlights. And what about that tiara? She’s no beauty queen. In fact she has a rather strong and even masculine face if you ask me. But to see her standing forth 155 feet above the harbor, the patina of her copper robes, the plaque recording the date beginning our sovereignty, and the rays of enlightenment emanating from her mind one knows intuitively that this work of art is not about the physical reality of what it is but about the metaphor on which it is constructed.

Our Lady of Liberty holds a place in our hearts not because of what she is so much as what she stands for. First she is a gift-- an homage to our liberation from England and our stated intention to never be bridled by monarch or tyrant and a hundred year plus history of successfully living out those intentions. Sculpted by Frederic Auguste Bartholdi and engineered by Gustave Eiffel she was given to us by the French on July 4, 1884 and constructed less than a year later early in 1885.



But the Statue of Liberty is a no brainer. We’ve all been raised on her meanings and her history so we can be safe in our understanding of why she is important to us. Any number of classical statues of Presidents sitting, Generals on horse back and illustrious patriots or defenders of various causes found in the central square of a thousand cities and towns across the land raising a flag or a sword are also easy to explain. So lets try a couple of harder images.

You are at once inside what may be a barn or stable and at the same time apparently in an open square. There is a weeping woman holding a dead child on one side beneath the protective stance of an angry but impotent bull. Another woman reaches in from a window holding a lamp (there’s that light again) into a room with a startled straining horse covered in a texture that is reminiscent of news print. The horse’s mouth is open in a silent scream made even more poignant by what seems to be the head of a spear or a sharp conical flame shooting from the mouth of a cannon or gun in place of its tongue. Another male figure throws up his hands against the wall of a building with flames shooting up from the roof. Beneath the horse and bull is what appears to be a fallen and broken statue of a warrior with a broken sword. And yet another female, this time she is a young maiden who stands dazed and confused by it all. There is a bare light bulb shining at the center of the ceiling in a fixture with a shade emanating stabbing rays of light like a crown or an explosion-- the sudden realization of what is occurring before our eyes. The entire image is done in black, white and warm /cool grays and stands the size of a modern billboard. The image is drawn in a flattened cartoon like fashion against a faceted cubist background where space is often turned inside out. There are no words commemorating the event so we have no way of knowing what the image symbolizes except for the pregnant metaphors it animates.

Picasso was deeply suspect by most in this country if not simply discounted because we couldn’t believe he could draw… that is until Guernica. Guernica illustrated for many that violent massacre of innocent Basques’ during the Spanish Civil War and demonstrated to the American audience so sure and set in its ways that cubism ( a form of abstraction) could actually get at the deeply felt even visceral emotions they had for reality. By illustrating the violence and chaos of the bombing of the Basque village in an abstract but symbolic way Picasso broke through the opinions of a people with their heels dug in. It is one of the most powerful statements ever expressed in paint and is now one of the most famous paintings in the world.



I saw it for the first time in 1975 at MoMA before going to art school. There was such a crowd of people standing in front of it I could only see the top half. There were people silently weeping as they passed out of the gallery nearly 50 some years after the events of its inspiration. The painting is so powerful that a reproduction hanging in the UN building was recently covered with a curtain because it was the backdrop in the room where TV press conferences were held. As one diplomat said ” it would not be an appropriate background if the ambassador of the United States at the U. N. John Negroponte, or Powell, talk about war surrounded with women, children and animals shouting with horror and showing the suffering of the bombings.”

I had a chance to see it again recently in Madrid with some colleagues and students. It still packs a punch.

.
And then there is the Viet Nam War Memorial on the mall in Washington D.C.. A piece which drew controversy when announced not least because the artist was a 21 year old woman of Chinese/American descent. Mia Lin was born in Athens Ohio and studied at Yale. Her vision for the Veterans Wall has its precedence in many such memorial walls in Europe commemorating the partisans who fought against the Nazi’s in WWII or in other struggles. It seemed to me in Italy there were similar walls in nearly every city, town and village I visited. But the idea to publish the names of every American soldier who died in the Viet Nam civil war in black granite offended many who believed that somehow it was an affront both to the patriotic soldiers and the politicians who sent them there. The idea that Mia Lin put forth, a woman who was of Chinese lineage, seemed to them a kind of peace protestor slapping them in the face. Here is what Cathleen McGuigan said in an article in Newsweek recently.



“Ross Perot, as well as 27 Republican congressmen, tried to block the starkly elegant plan. Critics claimed the gentle V where its two long walls met was a coded peace sign; what Lin called "a rift in the earth" one brigadier general termed "a scar of shame." Some vets hated it, too, so a conventional bronze statue of three soldiers and an American flag were installed nearby. But even from the start, the public seemed to embrace the memorial. Today it's the most-visited monument in Washington.” ("Where Memory Endures" by Cathleen McGuigan, Newsweek, February 12, 2007)

Those who were supporters of the wall may well have seen it as an indictment of the powerful men who guided the country into that war. But ultimately it is most important that veterans embraced it as a vital and positive statement about the war they fought, the country they fought it for and the comrades who were left behind. After all, unlike other war memorials, it was the Veterans themselves who established the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund, held the contest, selected Mia Lin’s design and raised the money to build their own memorial. It is truly as much their expression as it was Mia Lin’s.

To see the memorial names one must first descend below the level of the mall into a relatively deep furrow in the ground. So in a sense one descends into the earth, into the grave. I’ve heard this rift in the ground described as ‘divided ground’ which reflects the divided nation as the war dragged on.. One side of this rift is a bit steeper and higher than the other creating a sort of knoll or wave against which the wall stands mausoleum like with its list of names in granite. In its design it seems to support higher ground. Its smooth reflective black surface mirrors one’s gaze while reading the names of the fallen. One simply cannot look at the list of dead soldiers, whether volunteer or draftee, without seeing ones own image looking back.



“It could have been me” I often think. My number came up the year the draft ended. I was deeply conflicted as I waited through 3 years of eligibility about whether I would go fight against my will, plead as a conscientious objector or run to Canada. In the end the decision wasn’t mine at all.

Every time I visit D.C. I go to the Wall. I see people taking the rubbings of names of relatives or leaving flowers or gifts for fallen friends, tears in their eyes, chins crumbling, sometimes walking away with a sorrowful smile. There is almost always a large crowd of people there, touching, rubbing, weeping, explaining what happened to their children or their grandchildren. It is the most moving monument in D.C. for me, with the Jefferson, Lincoln and Roosevelt Monuments coming in close behind it. This wall that was supposed to be disrespectful to veterans according to some has become a wailing wall, a wall reminding us and warning us, and for many a healing wall. Its clear and concise spirit is sobering. Unlike many war memorials which idealize the soldiers with heroic proportion, gestures of strength and patriotism Mia Lins wall is minimal, severe and abstract. And yet it reflects realism in its chastity and its sobriety.

In comparison to Mia Lin’s work the statue that Ross Perot commissioned standing across from the wall looks like traditional toy soldiers to me. It is a more traditional statue of three figures by sculptor Frederick Hart. Though it too has its fans. Some say the soldiers are gazing at the wall across from which they stand, looking for the names of their fallen. Without denigrating or disrespecting either the sculptor whose work I’ve admired over the years, or the Veterans who find the statue to be emotionally satisfying, Even at their 7 foot height they are too realistic to be heroic. Yet the sculpture is also held tightly in the hearts of Veterans.

But these are each serious works, one about lofty ideals and the other two about tragedy and loss. These are the kind of works that once lodged in our souls can overcome our emotions and loyalties. But let’s take another of Picasso’s public works. The large head in the Civic Center Plaza in Chicago. The 50 foot high sculpture was gifted to the city of Chicago by Picasso in 1967. The piece weighs 162 tons and is made of Cor-Ten steel. It is said that Picasso traded the model from which it was made for a Stetson cowboy hat.



People think it is a woman’s head with flowing hair. Others think it looks like a baboon, a horse, an angel, a cow and even a bird of prey. No one seems to know that it is a portrait of one of Picasso’s Afghan hounds named Kazbec. I think it was Francois Gillot, Picasso’s former mistress and mother of two of his children, who identified it as the head of one of his prized Afghans in her book Life With Picasso.

The long snout, flowing hair and general feminine looks of the Afghan are obvious once you know what you are looking at. But the real importance of this piece is that while it was controversial upon its installment it has come to represent Chicago if only by quarters rights or a kind of ‘eminent’ domain. Chicagoans call it “da Pacaasso”. Kids slide down its sloping base and climb on the rungs of the snout. Tired shoppers sit along its sides and back. And it is a landmark by which to find ones way around the area. In fact after the sculpture became a bit more popular it inspired the city to set aside a certain amount of each budget to buy great art to be placed in public spaces. Now many cities around the country do a percent for art of some kind or another. What was originally considered a silly waste of money and steel has changed the way we think of public art.

What holds all three of these works together? The courage and wisdom of those in authority to allow a strong artistic statement to be made in public. In many cases they had to fight powerful public opinion and derisive critics. But the result is usually memorable and moving. The opposite position can be disastrous. Let me give you another example.

John Aschroft spent $8,000 to cover the breasts of justice because he was concerned, as he said, that people could see her breasts when he gave statements to the press on TV. Why didn’t he just have the statue moved off camera ? Certainly there was a political statement in this act. But his action had a double edge. The portion of the populace he wanted to impress saw it as covering the temptation to gaze at a woman’s naked breasts. To them Ashcroft was an upright warrior against smut. But the other half of society understood that those breasts revealed a metaphor…a breast is traditionally a symbol for nurture…think of all those religious paintings of the Madonna suckling the baby Jesus. . The position of the Attorney General is to do just that-- nurture justice. What caused the Attorney General so much grief was that many saw his action as a suggestion that during his tenure nurturing justice was something to be done away with. So one side saw a naked woman and the other side saw someone keeping doing away with justice for all.

Whatever you think of the examples I’ve given some things are clear. These images hold meaning. They are receptacles for our ideals, our hopes and dreams, our sense of humor or even fears and warnings of future mistakes…Art is the receptacle of our culture…In fact we assign meaning even if there is no hint of it in the image itself.

Let me give you one more example of the power of art. Organize a few rectilinear shapes, three colors, red and white and a handfull of white stars on a blue field.. Only the stars are an image of anything from nature. There is no hint of space or light, no subject-- in fact it is the subject itself. Just a minimalist design. Nothing to write home about until it was invested with the blood of Americans during the revolution. We assigned the meaning of the stars and the stripes and the field of blue where there had been no inherent meaning before. Dread Scott’s installation for audience participation at the Chicago Art Institute called What is the Proper Way to Display a U.S. Flag? caused such a ruckus that congress passed a law against desecrating the flag. The installation invited the audience to comment on the piece-- but they had to walk on the flag to do so. The controversy still boils up from time to time nearly 20 years later.

Many say art is too abstract, non-utilitarian and unproductive, elite and effete, too controversial to be a good investment for the community. This is a myth and the illustrations above should be persuasive. While art may not seem to serve a utilitarian purpose it certainly colors the world and helps us find its meaning. Think of a film without music to shade and evoke emotion or drinking beer in a bar without a juke box. Antiseptic is the word that comes to mind. But there are other contributions art makes within the society besides raising our patriotism and civil morale.

Art is among the oldest of human practices.

We think first in pictures. Picture making precedes language.

We feel an emotion or have an epiphany that makes us want to dance, or sing, write a poem or paint a picture even if we can‘t do these things well. And we are moved a second time when we appreciate the work of an artist who does these things with extraordinary talent, intelligence and wisdom.



Every product created by humans is touched by an artist at some point in its process of creation. Think of those beautifully decorated black and terra-cotta Greek vessels you’ve seen in the art books or the museum. They were simply jars for holding olives, oil, water and wine. They were nothing more than the Greek version of Tupperware. A few years ago our gallery director here at the college surprised the entire academic community with one of the most interesting exhibitions of the year. It was a show of Tupperware and its history. All that aqua blue and green transparency stacked like sculpture was really quite beautiful and some of the shapes and forms quite minimal and unique. We forget that all these things are not only useful but a form of art. The way your house is designed, the office building you work in, parks and government buildings which celebrate the authority and history of the city and state, your bath tub or kitchen sink, your toaster, your cell phone, your car, the tools you use, the chairs you sit on, clothes you wear and the dishes you eat from were all designed by someone. And that design is a combination of aesthetics and practical utility. We depend on these things to make our lives easier, more beautiful and even for the status they lend us.

But while commercial artists can make a living at what they do it is much harder for a fine artist these days. Partly because we do not understand how important the arts are to us, our creativity, to our economy and even out technology.

Creativity breeds creativity because it is a practiced communicable discipline. New ideas come from those who practice invention and those ideas foster other ideas and get passed around like a virus. Our fore fathers knew this when they gave Congress the right to oversee and regulate copyrights and patents in the Constitution. They knew that incentives for creativity and invention were like vitamins for the country. Until the 50’s when art schools began to give out degrees rather than diploma’s, most Universities had a School or College for the Arts and Sciences. The two words go together in more ways than we can imagine.

An example from the Impressionists…how many of you depend on computers at work or in your home? Let me tell you how that came to be.

Artists used to have to grind their paint every day or so because there were few useful receptacles which would keep the paint from drying out. And for the same reason they did not paint much outside the studio. Even if they used sealed jars, the jars were too heavy to carry into the landscape. They would go out to sketch, take the sketches back to the studio and make the paintings. It left something to be desired. So when lead tubes were invented in the mid 19th century artists quickly realized that painting from nature was now possible. The Impressionists were among the earliest to do so inspired by the works of Corot, Courbet, Daubigny, Jongkind, Millet and Rouseau celebrating the beauty of nature. The physics of color was falling into place at that time with several models that had become quite useful and well known among painters. Their practice lead the Impressionists to paint with quick broken brush strokes of colors placed near each other which the eye would blend catching the fleeting light as quickly as possible. The Post-Impressionists who came after them began to realize that small dots of color could be used to give a fascinating if time consuming effect. Their revised process of placing small dots of color next to each other inspired certain printers to experiment with a full color printing process which resulted in what we later called four color process. The pattern of magenta red, cyan blue, primary yellow and black is called the rosette pattern. Photography was also invented at around the same time making it more and more possible to actually capture the image of an original painting. Up until then a reproduction was done, often by another artist/engraver, in black and white only or at best with multiple flat color plates. Color photography allowed this process to mature into a very impressive form of color printing. Not many years later in the early 20th century black and white television was invented. That same rosette pattern was soon used to broadcast images in color. And of course later in that same century television technology was connected with computer technology to give us computer graphics. All of us now benefit from this chain of events and the technology it fostered.



Loyalty to the arts fostered the Renaissance in Florence. Art was an important attribute in the fostering of the Renaissance in Italy. Remember that the Medici’s were the first capitalist tycoons and the Uffizzi was the first art gallery/museum. Medici even set up what might be called the first art school in which Michelangelo not only learned to sculpt but also learned latin, studied the classics and calculus. Medici and the church set up lucrative competitions in which artists competed like business men. The Campanile (Bell Tower), the doors of the Baptistry and the Dome of the Cathedral were all lucrative competitions, as were the murals of the Sistine Chapel at the Vatican in Rome. This made Florence the place to be by fostering public art. Art energizes the citizenry, causes them to be loyal to their city by bringing out their sense of place. I once met a young man in Sienna who was waiting tables for his family restaurant in the main Piazza. As we talked I asked if he’d ever been out of Italy. He said “Why? I have everything I need here. I rarely leave Sienna. My family has a long history here, my friends are all here and its so beautiful. Why would I want to leave such a city on a hill? Sienna is my city.” He said this with a pride that I found quite moving. “But let me ask you a question” he said looking at us like the tourists we were, “why do you spend so much money to come here to visit my beautiful city on a hill? What is your city like?” I got the point.


Ok. So I hope I’ve proven the value of art and some of its myriad possible spin offs for the community. What can a community do to foster art and get the most of her benefits? For that you’ll have to come hear my talk on May 17th.

Replies: 165 Comments

on Sunday, May 27th, florida mulch rubber said

Good site. Thank you:-)

on Saturday, May 26th, cojiendo galilea montijo said

Good site. Thanks!!!

on Friday, May 25th, cara hair accessories said

Good site. Thank you!

on Friday, May 25th, cara hair accessories said

Good site. Thank you!

on Friday, May 25th, jenna jameson lesbian pic said

Good site. Thanks:-)

on Thursday, May 24th, porn jameson said

Good site. Thank you:-)

on Thursday, May 24th, chicas cojiendo said

Good site. Thank you:-)

on Tuesday, May 15th, ekornes compare prices said

Good site. Thank you!

on Tuesday, May 15th, rgvnst qwmajrxs said

jbcuq jlshv unqj fpjgzba skrnhu jxibemfw iwrcko

on Friday, May 11th, olivier said

I just pass by what did you talk about? Yes in canada communities support artists, oh no no no not me but yes they do. It's nice. Now I have to read all that?

on Friday, May 11th, brad said

Seems only fitting for me to chime in now. Walt, whatever you have thought, and are thinking, and shall think before the, "Talk." Assuming it hasn't already happened. When you get into the process of being there, and finally being introduce - look for a moment into everyone's eyes before you and say - "you know, I had prepared a speech for you tonight, - but, I've decided instead, to talk about the first thing that came into my mind this morning when I awoke to someone...
And, by the way, please feel free to ask me any question after I finished these words that are about to be poured upon you... Let us examine our purpose for being here tonight...

on Thursday, May 10th, jose said

That's the spirit Mark. We have to find a new common-ground or at least a platform where we can determine the new role of fine-art these days. We may percieve things differently, we may act differently and come across as eccentrics sometimes, but at the same time I feel that some people in the community are keen to be around creative people ... if only we didn't project the image of the demigod, which sometimes we do. It's in our hands to change that. I've proposed the other two guys at OD that we do a regular cheese and wine gathering on the premisses and have an open house two or three times a year. No talk of buying stuff, just a plain and simple get together in the midst of all the caos of our studios. I think that kind of thing works wonders in the long run. Maybe that's something you could discuss with other local artists before your talk, Walt, and present the possibility to the crowd to see what their reaction might be. No sales pitch on the side, just a 'be with the artist' opportunity.

on Thursday, May 10th, Andrew said

Boy did I blow it on this one. I meant, some artists are pompous and self righteous, not communities...and that the theatrics of having Walt invite Chuck so the community could be horrified wouldn't enlighten. Have to steel wool my communication skills. Thanks for the insight, Mark. And I hope you're able to influence the group you'll be talking too positively, Walt. I'm sure you will.

on Thursday, May 10th, walt said

Thanks for a remarkably well reasoned comment Mark.

on Thursday, May 10th, Mark said

Andrew, though I agree with you that two people will most likely not change the communities idea of supporting their local artists, I do not think it is because they (community/individuals) are pompus or self righteous. True some may be, a very small few. I think it is more a question of ignorance, which Walt, I think, hopes to change. Most people just don't see the importance of fine art, and though I think it important, I am not sure that it truely does have the importance it once did. As artists we think it or want it to be important, but if the community at large (which is made up of idividuals) thinks otherwise then....... So what is an artists to do? No point to sitting in our studios ranting and raving on how bad we artists have it or how we are not appreciated or supported. For me I try to enlighten individuals as I go along, through shows, teaching and when I am out painting in the field. We need to understand the real situation in regards to our true place in society at this time, and work with it. If we understand the reality then it is easier to work with and less frustrating. That is not to say that we just give up, no, we need to educate where and when we can.

on Thursday, May 10th, Andrew said

An artist is not supported by the community. The community is made up of individuals, most of who couldn't care less for art and what artists have to say, because they're often so pompous and self righteous that it gives them as a group a bad name. You only remember what sticks out, and that's usually the mustard stain on your white suit.
Some individuals support artists, but that support has nothing to do with the community.
Two people are not going to enlighten anyone, especially if one of them has such narrow vision as to what makes a 'real' artist, that he despises what the other has done. But it would make a nice scene for a mind numbing flick.

on Wednesday, May 9th, Chuck said

The meeting is at the Grandview Ohio Chamber of Commerce.

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL INDEPEDENT ARTIST

on Wednesday, May 9th, Chuck said

Anyone wishing to represent independent artists may do so by attending this event and/or emailing Mary Hart.
-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------

Chamber Dinner Meeting

Join us: Thursday May 17, 2007

1433 W. Third Ave.
Columbus, OH 43212

5:00 - 5:30 pm: Networking
5:30 - 6:30 pm: Dinner & Speaker

Members: $15.00
No Reservation and Non-Members: $20.00

Professor Walter King of Columbus College of Art & Design will be speaking about the value of art to small cities and how to establish and support a vibrant arts community.

If you have any questions for the speaker, please e-mail them to Mary Hart before the event.

RSVP online, call 614.486.0196 \or email. PLEASE RSVP by May 14, 2007 by 3:00pm in order for us to accurately prepare for the event.

Please Note: Any RSVP’s past the deadline or no shows to the luncheon will be charged the $20.00 amount.

._________________________________________________
"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A representative of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""
_________________________________________________

on Wednesday, May 9th, Chuck said

When oh when will my work include more of what I do than my making of art objects!

I just gave a cure for global warming.

I just gave an answer to gaining support for artists by forming unions.

I did this all without giving my name.

I would rather fault doubt than to concede to irrelevance.

on Wednesday, May 9th, jose said

Descartes, Hume, doesn't matter. Ultimately, the only thing that should matter to you as an artist is the relation in which you stand to your work, if it is sincere and you’ve worked to the fullest of your abilities, what others think or say is irrelevant. Doubt is the result of too much control, it leaves you stranded in the uncertainty that what you experience within you is not reflected and is not met with the same enthusiasm on the outside. It’s like a membrane that is difficult to go through, so much so that if you think about it you’ll maybe see that you feel it’s crippling effect in your diaphragm – at the level of the solar plexus. The paradox of it all is that you alone are responsible for the outside that surrounds you. You are the only one who can remove that membrane. Try changing the attitude and let your work speak for itself, Chuck, you’ll be amazed how quickly doubt dissipates and others will join you in your enthusiasm over what you’ve created.

on Wednesday, May 9th, Chuck said

Perhaps there is light! I made a mistake! Descarte is the creator of doubt, not Hume! Hume stated that if it is conceivable then it is possible. Ah yes!

on Wednesday, May 9th, Chuck said

The great philosopher David Hume ripped a torrid path through mine, and many other minds. He wrote, among many topics, about doubt. Sometimes I wonder if he invented doubt.

I doubt if Walter will have much impact by talking to this group alone. I feel he will be very entertaining but ineffectual.

I doubt, at this time, as to my abilities of starting a union to bring health care, benefits, retirement, shows, exposure, better prices, etc; to independent artists.

Doubt is an awful thing. It creeps up on you and eats your desire, drive, and fortitude. Maybe doubt is the root of depression. I curse Hume, the maker of doubt! Perhaps doubt is a check and balance of consciousness. A sort of hey wait a minute before an action or thought. Unchecked, doubt can destroy a person, maybe even countries.

I doubt if anyone is even reading this. My pen, my keypads, just clicking in the wind.

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

The whole idea of inhabiting places like the moon is really scary! Can you imagine living someplace where you have to pay for air to breathe? Yikes!

Oh gee, a little off topic Walter? Golly, Walter is off writing another blog. He never had the guts to ever say where the meeting is he invited everyone to. Claimed it's advertised. Even though it's still a week away, he claims he can't take another person along. Seems to me it would be perfectly fine and he has ample time to make a call or two.

The man sure can brag about his knowledge of art history! Wow! Some pompous speech is going to get people to support the arts, huh? Shame Walter is going to use a community meeting to flaunt his self righteousness.

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL INDEPENDENT ARTIST

UNIONIZE THE ARTS

._________________________________________________
"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A representative of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""
_________________________________________________

on Tuesday, May 8th, Mark said

Demoncrtats LOL. Republicans LOL. Both are a joke. Living on the moon to fix global warming....HUH? Bush can't even tie his own shoes....what does all this have to do with communities supporting, or not, artists?....HUH?

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

Well that's great you feel about Bush that way Mark because....

The Republicans can't start the draft. Too much fall out, drop outs, and public disaproval. Only the Democrats start up the draft! Check your history!

I just anonymously posted the solution that is in effect for the slowing down, stopping, and possiblly waaaay into the future cause a reversal of, Global Warming. Bush has pledged mankind to be living on the Moon in 2026. Read below the solution for Global Warming.

on Tuesday, May 8th, Mark said

UUUHHH, huh? Bush a baffoon. Yes. Not still, always. Sorry Mom and Dad B.

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

I guess I didn't finish the Global Warming solution. By the shipment of water and carbon dioxide to the moon, the Global Warming on Earth will be halted and an enviroment will be created on the moon. Carbon dioxide is what plants breath to live. Water provides life and the molecules of water, H2O can be split to form both energy by Hygrogen combustion, and oxygen for humans to breate. The Carbon Dioxide can also be split to provide additional oxygen and carbon which has many uses including the new emerging field of nano-technology of carbon rings, Bucky Balls, nano tubes, etc, (organic and in-organic building and other uses).

So........

What do you all say to that?

Who is gonna steal that idea for a book, eh?

Still afraid of Global Warming?

Too much to comprehend?

Science fiction?

Still think President Bush is a bafoon?

on Tuesday, May 8th, Mark said

HUH?

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

Scenario:

.Artists in the U.S. unionize.
.Popularity of unions spread.
.3rd world (sorry) other countries follow such as China.
.Labor movement in China succeeds.
.Unions assure higher wages in China.
.Consumer spending in China soars.
.Economy races. Production escalates.
.With soaring production comes pollution.
.Enviroment suffers badly.
.Energy needs expand vorociously.
.All out war for oil.

Unions will only quicken the rest of that scenario. That scenario may already be in place. That scenario may already have come to an end. Besides, it is doubtful that a labor movement could succeed in China.

If above scenario becomes worse, would not an organized labor association of artists be of great benefit? Sure! Absolutely! Creative minds create new worlds!

As for the enviroment suffering in the above scenario, ie., Global Warming, that should be the least of our worries. Global Warming actually has a simple, but complex, solution! President George Bush has pledged occupancy of the moon in 2026. The moon is void of both atmosphere and water. Global Warming produces both an excess of water and carbon dioxide. Through the use of an Earth to Moon Elavator, (yes such is in research and developement check Google) water and carbon dioxide can be shipped both atonimicly (molecule) and sub-atomically (atom and particle), and maybe even by inherent mass (actual solid in volume), to the moon.

So, I guess I have the ok to start a union or is the word association better? Naw, go with union!

on Tuesday, May 8th, Mark said

Union huh? No, don't like unions as a rule, they have helped in the past, making work conditions better, better pay, but generally speaking unions have lived passed their usefulness. Most unions work at keeping the members all hot an bothered, telling them them they are being taken advantage of, that the union will protect them when in reality the only thing the union is realy protecting is their job, much as you accuse Walt of doing. I am not saying this out of ignorance, for various reason I know a lot about unions. Unions not related to companies but rather groups of selfemployed people have little power anyway. Is the I.A.C.O. a real union or an idea? I realy don't know. Real or an idea it will need to collect dues. From who? Artists, who can not afford the due most likely. I'd rather buy paint with the money, but that's just my opinion. More power to the I.A.C.O. and all the dues it collects.

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

Mark, maybe others will be inspired. Everything has to start someplace!

We have whats called Globalization going on in this world. Lot of America's labor has gone overseas where there are no unions to protect the workers and make sure they receive adequate compensation for their labors.

In America, many of those who are good with their hands are now making art. Artists now represent a lot of American workers! And with the Democrats comming to power who support the unions, lets put it all together and see what we have!

What we have is....
How about the I.A.C.O.
That's the Independant Artists of Columbus Ohio. Maybe incorporate chapters someday and become the I.A.N.A.
That would be the International Artists of North America.

Oh everyone says you can never get artists together. Well, Walter has benefits and retirement and probably health care. Most artists don't! I think that would be veeerrry inticing for many artists!

Delusions or grassroots, YOU call it!

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL INDEPENDENT ARTIST !!!

._________________________________________________
"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A representative of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""
_________________________________________________

on Tuesday, May 8th, Mark said

Sorry, not Cuck, Chuck. My disability, can't type. LOL

on Tuesday, May 8th, Mark said

Cuck, glad your making a stand on this issue, trouble is doing it here at AA will do little good. I doubt many of us here don't even live in your community, I don't. You may think it will help us all but as long as your stand is here it will not help me or artists I know. Maybe you think by doing this you will open our eyes, I think we already know the deal in regards to community support. Even Walts talk will not help me or thousands of artists, maybe a couple maybe just him, who knows. As using your anger to make things different was just a sugestion, don't get your shorts in a bind, it is no worse a sugestion as you have been giving.

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

When the horse is dead, then walk!

or:

As eighteenth-century naval hero John Paul Jones said,....

"I HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO FIGHT"

Well, Walter, where is this meeting? In your blog you invite all. Where is it? Afraid I'll attend? Afraid I'll stand outside with a picket sign? Come on Walter! Tell me where the meeting is! It's my community also!

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL INDEPENDENT ARTIST !!!

.
"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A representative of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""
_________________________________________________

on Tuesday, May 8th, Stained Glass Stop said

visit www.stainedglassstop.com for stained glass art.

on Tuesday, May 8th, walt said

Chuck, I'll say it again. It is not a panel discussion. It has already been advertised. I'm not at liberty to bring anyone else. It isn't my choice at this point. Its a dead issue.

BRN, no, Chuck isn't a joke or a sham. He's the real deal or I wouldn't have continued to discuss this so long. He actually is my friend.

Chuck. You deserve to speak your peace. Again, I really suggest that you write a blog on this subject from your point of view. Honestly I was just pulling your chain about sniping at you. It simply isn't in my nature unless pushed to the limit and then I won't snipe I'll call you on the phone and we'll have it out face to face if it gets that bad. You have a point of view that if enlarged upon with more facts would be worth reading. I encourage you to take advantage of the platform that aa could help you establish. You should have a larger voice both here and wherever aa extends. Its an oppurtunity that sidesteps the academic structures you dislike so much.

And I'm sure Markus would not require you to give your real name. I think he gave you the chance to do it once before. Do it anonymously under a pen name if you like. Or you can do it on your personal blog site.

Oh, and yes, eventually I will retire and move out of town. Then, as I said, I will be closer to being in your shoes, in a way back to where I was 20 odd years ago. My retirement account is not that big contrary to opinion. Yes, wealth is relative. And I'll be starting in a place that doesn't know me, my academic connections or anything but the art I put out there. I won't know any artists in the area either so even those connections will be gone.

Now I have another blog to write.

on Tuesday, May 8th, bm said

Jose, you are much too nice and trying to tame a "wild" tiger here i.e. Chuck. You're trying to talk logic with an illogical person. Since Chucks has continued with wacky tiraid, he's invalitdated anything of substance you might have said.

All Chuck is doing is making a bigger fool of himself with every disparaging remark he makes. Again, he can't WALK the WALK. If he could, he'd grow some balls and come out of the closest. He's a joke, a sham.

on Tuesday, May 8th, jose said

Chuck, my use of the word ‘ultimately’ was not random. You first touch the individual and, eventually, if you touch a sufficient amount you’ll end up reaching the community. And it doesn’t happen going solo, the individuals you touch give you a hand. On the other matter I still believe some guys burn too many bridges and waste too many opportunities because of the manner in which they choose to express their beliefs or manifest their needs. I’m quite certain that when the time comes and you come out from your hiding place and stand along side your work [which I can sense from reading between the lines here, is actually pretty good], owning up to your real name, you don’t put up this show, or at least you tone it down a bit. I believe you've told us in the past that you choose to write anonymously so as to not jeopardise your art. But there is no point in arguing further, you are just going to copy/paste parts of what I’ve written and you’ve half-read and reinterpret them to your advantage, with a little venom added. Take care and work hard.

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

You should see those teachers here is this town. Oh they are all so happy! They all have their families! Their houses! They drink well at all the pubs. We don't have any celebrities here except local media so hey, they think they are really something. And Hey, since the power houses of CCAD and OSU support them, they are treated like Gods here.

So if you are not in with these two power houses, you are nothing! You have a job or something, occasionally sell some work, occasionally have a show. I think there is only one artist here who is living well off their art and that is Aminah Robinson. Course she did go to CCAD but I suppose I'm being picky.

Ann Hamilton is an international artist who lives here. She is doing well. She teaches at OSU. And since the OSU art center pretty much brought her to international recognition because she works with fabric and the benefactor of the center is a clothing magnate, well, that's the way it goes sometimes.

Rick Borg is a primitive painter here in town. He struggles along by selling his paintings to the community here that doesn't pay much for art. He went to OSU. He paints in the style of the un-trained self artist even though he is educated. He would be an excellent person to take along. He is very personable. He once was a professional golfer!

Hmmm... who else? I do live in a bit of a bubble... hmmmm....

Oh, I finally corrected the mispelling of representative;

_________________________________________________
"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A representative of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""
_________________________________________________

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

"So take that anger and energy you are using here and use to help other artists and yourself to be better supported", Mark said.
******That is what I'm doing. I'm making a stand right here and right now for the other artists, the independents in Columbus Ohio! In this town the academiacs are supported well. The rest of us (most of us)suffer!

"I agree with Andrew, we should not expect the community to support us, individuals support art [even at the corporate level, ultimately, it is an individual who decides to bring the matter of acquisition before the board]," Jose said.
*****Communities are comprised of individuals.

"On the matter of an independent going along? From my experience, unless he knows how to present himself in front of an audience with a presence and a voice beyond the quality of his work, chances are he’ll only contribute to blow everybody else’s chances. Let the talking to whoever can handle it," Jose said.
******Sure, we unschool non-teacher indeependants can't be a seen in public! We just some leetle rats who can't afford proper clothing. We spit when we talk and roll our heads back and forth while wringing our hands continously. We heathens us non-schoolers! Yes let the almighty academians speak. Let them get it all. We un-schoolers we happy with getting those crusts that fall from the table. Please all mighty teacher, just mention us non-schoolers, please?

"Artists are not supported by the community. The community as an entity cannot act. Artists are supported by individuals, always have been, and always will be", Andrew said.
******* I'm sorry, this just doesn't make sense. Communities are comprised of individuals. Whenever anyone talks to anyone, or any group, it's an individual or group of individuals.

_________________________________________________
"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""
_________________________________________________

on Tuesday, May 8th, Mark said

Chuck, I had no idea you had a disability, that, as you say keeps you where you are. How could I? And I was not attacking you but I could not understand why you would keep your real name a secret, now you have explained why, I am not disabled and can not see why that would discredit your work but you feel it does, so be it. Trouble is you and Walt are beating a dead horse here, the discussion and I use that word loosly, has fallen to the level of two boys in a playground fighting over who's Dad is stronger then other. The two of you will never resulve this. So take that anger and energy you are using here and use to help other artists and yourself to be better supported, maybe use it to show the community that just because some one has a disability that does NOT make them less an artists.

on Tuesday, May 8th, jose said

Come on Chuck, let it be, you’ve made your point ages ago. We know where you stand. Like I said before you’ve contributed some valid points but you’ve gone overboard with your antics. Sure, I know, and most of us here know, what you mean, and probably also the frustration you feel - Here in Portugal that kind of ‘vicious’ circle is also promoted, just like you claim is the case with this institution you and Walt seem to have different views upon. Like you, I’m an ‘independent’, but unlike you I’m not expecting to be taken on by the establishment or by a generous gesture from the community. I prefer to work the other way around: I am in a community, actively involved in my own art but also making attempts at sharing what I do [not just showing my work and expecting it to be bought by the people in the community, but sharing the few things I know, sometimes, if need be, even ‘teaching’ and organizing workshops]. I agree with Andrew, we should not expect the community to support us, individuals support art [even at the corporate level, ultimately, it is an individual who decides to bring the matter of acquisition before the board], but this doesn’t mean we should shun them or be angry towards them because they don’t – we should focus on showing them we are present. We have to invert the onus and not just sit back.

Now, to the matter of you and Walter. Not that I think Walt needs anybody to stand up for him here, he does that quite well himself. But you’re starting to get on my system, Chuck. Whatever your qualms and how far back they may go [and from reading they seem to go way back] why not give him the benefit of the doubt this time, until you’ve heard about the outcome? It’s not going to harm you either way. The Walter I’ve grown accustomed to ‘listen’ to in the past three years just doesn’t come across to me like what you are trying to portray. At least around these parts [Portugal], the teachers who do the kind of thing you accuse Walter of doing don’t express themselves the way Walt does, completely different jargon – empty stuff : they seldom have a kind word for anybody and the support of ‘their’ artists and institutions is intellectualised and cold. Why, those guys wouldn’t even be caught reading, let alone writing on aa [and we are better off for it!]. I can’t speak for the others on this forum, but to me Walt doesn’t come across as someone who is trying to sell his institution to secure his job. He isn’t even someone you can accuse of resting on his job as you claim, he’s coming up with work of his own on a regular basis.

On the matter of an independent going along? From my experience, unless he knows how to present himself in front of an audience with a presence and a voice beyond the quality of his work, chances are he’ll only contribute to blow everybody else’s chances. Let the talking to whoever can handle it.

on Tuesday, May 8th, Andrew said

Artists are not supported by the community. The community as an entity cannot act. Artists are supported by individuals, always have been, and always will be.

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

Dang Walt. Not everybody gets a cake walk like you! Not everybody gets to be a teacher. Show some humanity! Show some support to the independents. Just having the audience recognize that not everyone is so gifted like you would be great. Oh I know all you teachers are better than the rest of us, but please, please show that us less infortunates deserve to live also!

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

Oh, and don't take another teacher. Looking for some diversity here! Hey I know how tough it is here, lots of independents are having to have jobs. As long as a bit of representation to the independents is given, then cool. Can ya do that fella? Huh? How about it! Huh? Spread the wealth a bit away from the academiacs huh? Whattya say?

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

Oops, what do you call those?...pot shots?

on Tuesday, May 8th, Chuck said

Once again, a big long diatribe and you STILL won't consider taking along an independent artist! Everything about you is your school. Look at your last comment!

I addressed the issue of Columbus' failing Creative Scene! It's all about your school and the university here! That's it! That believe it or not is why it's failing! Independents are needed! Independents need support. Not you rich teachers (well ok we all know that's relative!)

"The truth is that most artists I know do something else on the side to flesh out their incomes. And I'm talking about the best of them...not the Sunday painters, amateurs or dilitants. They are dedicated artists who spend their entire lives making art during the bulk of their existance. Many achieve some sort of national notice. Some sell well in the community." said Walt.
THEN TAKE ONE WITH YOU YOU AROGANT ACADEMIC COAT TAIL RIDING POMPOUS KNOW IT ALL PART TIME ARTIST!

on Tuesday, May 8th, walt said

Chuck,

I am proud to be a teacher. I promise, like you it wasn't one of my top life choices when I finished high school. I hated schools. It simply chose me. At some point I learned something about history and began to see teaching and painting as two aspects of the same coin.

But remember I don't teach painting. I teach in peripheral fields...fields where it is somewhat more possible for a young artist to compete and make a living. This was the result of my life path. I don't turn out students who compete with you. You wouldn't do the kind of work they do under any circumstances. But they have a dream of doing something in the field of their interests whether illustration, animation or some other commercial or pop culture field.

The truth is that most artists I know do something else on the side to flesh out their incomes. And I'm talking about the best of them...not the Sunday painters, amateurs or dilitants. They are dedicated artists who spend their entire lives making art during the bulk of their existance. Many achieve some sort of national notice. Some sell well in the community.

The truth is that many artists get teaching jobs because they are good. Not because they can't do but because they can. And they can do it better than most. I'm not saying anything against you when I say this because you have extenuating circumstance or you'd be one of them. You're good enough. Hell you're more than equal to any of them. There is simply no cabal against local artists by the colleges and universities. They just hire good people when they can-- when the academic concensus is in ascendance. Oh of course there are always a few exceptions. There are always a few bad choices. But that is always the case in everything.

Are there elites who have agendas. Sure. Most people have an agenda. It's the American way. So I dislike some? Sure I do. Do I blame them for their agendas? Only when it is directly aimed at someone in particular and usually it isn't. Do I think that the local opinion of certain elites is that anyone who is local can't be good or they'd be in New York or London selling their art? Yes. But don't put it all on academia. It's another level entirely. Much harder to target.

You know I've gotten some great oppurtunities to jury shows and organize exhibitions, or as in this case to speak. Sometimes it is because I'm part of the local art school which has a national recognition and sometimes it's because I'm found on absolutearts or because I got to know a slew of local artists during the heyday of the Short North renaissance when I first moved back here to teach. Some because some other artist flaked out or wasn't prepared. They simply weren't professional. Some of them I got because I just went out and volunteered. And sometimes I went out and conjured those opportunities myself.

When I was responsible for choosing one artist over another it was because of the art not the person. I chose the art I thought was great, or at least good compared to what was availible-- because of who entered. I didn't choose someone because they were a colleague although I will admit I've put people in shows because I knew their work. Sure they were friends. But they were friends because first I admired their work. LIke you.

I've fought for people who were untrained, semi-trained and more than trained. I've even had to fight for people who had multiple degrees and working on a PhD just because someone else felt that because they had that education they couldn't possibly be good. There are biases on all sides. It's like a minefield sometimes as you well know. Yet I felt they were the better choice even in the face of my academic colleagues. You see it ain't all that homogenous. AS you've seen many times here on aa the art community is not often in consensus.

In fact when it came to putting myself forward to get my own art out there I've had trouble within the academic community because I teach in a commercial field. There is a real bias there with a history that goes all the way back to Grant Wood. Fine art against commercial art. I've had a leg in both camps since the beginning of my career. But that never stopped me. In fact I've developed a rather wholistic philosphy about it all.

There is an article in The Columbus Dispatch entitled "New outlook for arts ?" (4/4/07) that details the efforts of a City Council-created task force charged with recommending a cultural policy for Columbus, Ohio.

The Creative Columbus Policy Steering Committee membership graded the current art scene on a scale of 1 (low) to 12 (high) in several areas. The scores are included in the article.

The panel states that "Columbus must do more to fund and promote its struggling cultural scene." I felt that someone ought to make sure that buying art was part of that support and promotion. I got a call shortly after reading what the panel had to say and low and behold it was a chance to comment on that very thought.

I'm going to do that. I wasn't invited to organize a panel discussion...simply give a short talk. I have a whole list of suggestions not included in my blog because it was already long winded being my first draft.

I didn't intend on getting into this old discussion with you. All I wanted was to bounce my talk off a few ears and get some simple comments. Many of which have caused me to think of ways to simplify my talk and make it more to the point. So thanks for the advice. I'll take it under advisement.

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

Small town crap! I got stuck here many years ago due to my disability. Haven't been able to leave because of the disability. Small town crap! Bullheaded teachers. College town. A town that wants to grow up. But can't. The weight of the colleges pull it down.

Many big collectors buy in New York not realizing the talent here. Not too many survive by their art here. Teachers shove dogma.

Walter is happy. He quit responding. He knows now that my disability is exposed that my words are now meaningless, discarded.

I love this town! It's the Discovery City. Columbus Ohio, the town that Walt and I live in. Him by choice, me without choice. I've discovered some amazing inventions here. Course my disability discredits all my work and opinions other than art object making.

I fought hard through 116 comments to try and better this city through stressing that the independent artists of this city need representation also. Doesn't matter. Walt doesn't really care about this city. When we were friends he would often say how much he hated this city and how no one knows anything about art. I don't know why he thinks his paintings are worth more than the going rates here. Well, he has told me he just doesn't need the money so why sell cheap!

Walter used to tell me when we were fiends about how he couldn't wait to retire so he could get out of here! Well it looks like I'm staying! It doesn't look good either. No retirement, living month to month. Well I've always said, I'll retire when the lid closes!

I've always maintained through 116 comments that a big ol' long boisterous tirade of spewing how smart you are about something just doesn't have the same effect that actually doing it has. Still think Walter could serve his community much better by bringing along an independent artist. No matter what though, it all comes down to his choice. God bless the freedom of America! Think how wonderful this world would be if everyone had as much freedom of those in the United States of America!

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

You happy now Walt/Mark? Destroy the messenger. Discredit them!

Whatever!

This town is still stifled by an orgy of academic back scratching. Wether it's me with a disability or other independant artists! Those at CCAD and OSU squelch the creativity in this town. They get all the breaks, are asked to do all the talks, etc etc etc, Hell, who else are they gonna ask? The artists have left! Except me 'cause I'm disabled and can't! (ok just kidding, I think there are a couple more of us!)

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

Mark, saying why I wish to remain anonymous is the same as telling you who I am. All my life I have been discredited by a disability. It's the card everyone uses against me whenever I say anything!

I also truly feel that my message is more than about me and Walter!

on Monday, May 7th, Mark said

Chuck, if what you say, that this is not realy about you or Walt but about the community support of the arts, and the power of the school, then why hide your true identity? If you are truely strong in your beliefs then why hide who you are? I don't mean any disrespect but if I truely felt that I am in the right I would not hide who I am. I can think of no reason why I would ever hide who I am, regardless of what I say or feel. If it is my belief then I would want people to know who I am and what I stand for. There may be more here then meets the eye but wouldn't you want people to know who it is that has such strong convictions for the artists he is champion? If you are right why hide?

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

Since you can't or won't address my message Walter, I will.

""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, as Walter is, is not supported by the community.

***Granted this is tough to keep impersonal. We all know Walter is a teacher. He lets us know often on this website. He has told us that he does not sell locally and he is trying to get higher prices for his, and he says, others work. Well... if this makes it personal knowing his income is from teaching, well, he's not teaching for free.

"""""""A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""""

****** Ok. This sentance implies that Walter does not sell any paintings locally. I suppose to keep this impersonal, and not hurt his feelings, we need to assume he may.

Ok, so this statement bothers you Walter. A another major point I'm pushing here is that in this community, those connected to OSU and CCAD get tons more breaks than those making art not connected. I'm only suggesting that you bring someone with you who is independent.

What is really funny about all of this, It could have been over about comment 8 by saying something like, "Thats a great idea bringing another person! I'll look into it!" But instead Mr. pompous, we are at comment 112.

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

Sure, I just partially discredited my own statement by calling you the almighty smart one. My apologies also for any offense I may of caused you. I have tried dutifully to keep from becoming personal. I am human, I slipped ocassionally!

Can you possibly address this my message without feeling personally threatened? I guess not, you are a teacher! Teachers are never supposed to be questioned! There I go again! I'm sorry, but teachers are not God!

""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, as Walter is, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""""

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

Walter, you know darn well what everyone will pick up on and scorn me about! That's why you want me to disclose who I am and not you. So go ahead! There is a reason I prefer to remain anonymous and you know darn well what it is! If I disclose, you thus will not be to blame for the unwarranted, insensitive discrediting I'll receive! That's your card, not mine Walter! You want it played? Go for it yourself!

As I stated over and over and over.... This is not a personal issue! This is an issue of the community! You wrote the blog. You are the almighty smart one, you asked for opinions!

A typical attack from a weak argument is to attack the messenger and not the message!

The message, which given a clear response to, would be beautiful, is:

""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, as Walter is, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""""

on Monday, May 7th, walt said

I'd still prefer you to admit who you are. It'll do you a lot of good to get a little sunshine.

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

ok teacher...here...
The first, and main paragraph of your last comment was a run on paragraph. Too many ideas. It needs broken into separate subjects to clarify your voice!

My mother was an english teacher for a bit while she was supporting herself as an actress. Since you obviously brag of your intelligence, (see above blog entry), I'll brag about mine! When I was in 5th grade She would force me to grade her 8th grade english essays so she could work on her post graduate studies!

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

Whoa... talk about personal attacks!

"I'd prefer you to admit who you are. I think it would be the manly thing to do", Walt said!

Unbelievable!

on Monday, May 7th, walt said

So Chuck. Tell me again what I wrote about supporting local artists that is different than what you are saying? Oh I remember. It wasn't that I was suggesting we shouldn't support our local artists. And I never said anything about supporting colleges. That is only an assumption you have made. Pretty much a red herring. I never said anything about supporting teachers. I am suggesting that the value of local art should be higher than what people are paying for it, which, if I have any impact will help you as well. What is pissing you off is that I was invited to do this. I am a teacher and therefore the wrong messenger in your mind, i.e. kill the messenger. I didn't go looking for the opportunity. It just came to me. Is it only because I am a teacher? Or because I too have been here for over 23 years making art and putting it out there? Am I to blame because people tend to still give a little honor to teachers? Especially in the case when the teacher does what they teach at a fairly high level? I'm good at what I do. Yes, I expect a bit higher price for what I do but that doesn't hurt you as much as it prices me out of the market. Basic economics, if they apply to art at all, says one can only sell for what the market will bear. If you are asking that price you'll sell more than me. If I drop my price I'll steal some of your market share. You should be happy that I keep my prices a bit higher. This argument is like Ford complaining that Toyota is asking more for their cars. If they can get it great. If not then Ford benefits. You can continue to undercut me and continue to make a living. But you haven't got any ground to stand on when you attack me for being a teacher. I'm no threat to you. And you've been doing this to me for more than, what, 3 years now?

I'd prefer you to admit who you are. I think it would be the manly thing to do. I've kept your identity for several years even while you were in my face. Don't make me do it. Time to step up to the plate. Once you've done this it will change our discussion dramatically. I doubt that I'll change my mind. But there will be more respect between us because you'll have to be responsible for what you say.

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

but....
ya wanna call me out? Huh? Then do it!
Ya wanna attack the messenger? Cool. go ahead!

I'm just one of the many..... but I stayed here! All the talent leaves this city. All the civic leaders are scrambling to try to figure a way to keep creative talent in this city.

I'm just one of the many... but stayed! If ya aint connected to OSU or CCAD ya aint got a chance for nothin' here!

I'm just one of the many....but stayed. A few others have stayed...but not many!

""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, as Walter is, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""""

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

This is also not about Walter! This is not about anyone in particular! This is about an internal struggle within this community!

Please, give voice to everyone! Please support your INDEPENDENT local artist!
.
.

""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""""

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

This is not about me! This is about academia pushing agendas. This about independent artists, self taught artists, artists not connected with schools!

Here also in town, the university art center picked 3 academians for a show that supposedly represents Ohio artists. Sure these academians are related to ohio. But once again, the independents have been left out.

I stand up for this town! The orgy of academic back scratching is smothering! I stand up for this town to rise above being a college town! I stand up for the independent artists! It is time for this town to turn professional!

Attack not the messenger...consider the message!

"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""

on Monday, May 7th, Mark said

You guys need to know this. This bantering is becoming quite humorous, in an absurd sort of way.

on Monday, May 7th, Mark said

Well if he is known enough to the art community and public at large to where I might recognise his name then one would think he would be making enough money off his art and have the recognition he needs for this not to be an issue. Sooooo, out him Walt, or Chuck come out into the light. Not for me but for the world or at least for AA. Please!

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

If you can't attack the message then attack the messenger..... WEAK!

The message is:

"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""

on Monday, May 7th, walt said

Actually you might recognize his name. But the point is that as long as he remains anonymous he can say anything he likes without having to stand behind it personally as I do. So yes, it is important. While I'm standing out here naked he is hiding behind a rock taking pot shots.

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

Walt, you are not the only teacher in the world!

If you can't attack the message then attack the messenger..... WEAK!

"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting."""""""""""""""""""""

on Monday, May 7th, Mark said

Why would it matter as to who Chuck realy is. I am sure most of us would not know him/her anyway even if his/her real name(?) was used. Would we?

on Monday, May 7th, bm said

Walt,

Glad to see you are now taking the high ground...climb higher and let the cat out of the bag and expose this guy. Let his work speak since we can clearly see he can't do it in words.

on Monday, May 7th, walt said

Chuck, of course you have. It began on a personal level. You've stated clearly that you do not consider me a real artist because I teach, that those who can do and those who can't teach. Pretty clearly personal to me. Don't you even read what you write? I don't accept that concept and neither does history. You haven't got a leg to stand on.

Look. Until you fess up and tell everyone who you are this conversation is going to be very one sided. Will you explain who you are or should I?

on Monday, May 7th, Mark said

One might begin to think that Walt and Chuck are the same person, a duel personality arguing with itself.

You guys maybe should take this argument to a bar or phone or email. Just a sujestion :)

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

Look pal, you are the one who has constantly tried to make this personal! It aint! Got it?

It ain't personal!

The reason you continue to make this personal is because your argument is WEAK and you know it! Why throw in the friends comment? Huh? Why? Why cite my living with someone for 6 years? Huh? Why? Why say I could do something for more money? Huh? Why?

The fact of the matter is this... I will say it over and over and over .....

"""""""""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, as Walter is, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting."""""""""""""""""""""

I don't want to be there! Got it? Find someone else! Got it! Give some representation to independent artists! Got it? And if they don't know what hit them? THEN YOU MADE AN IMPACT!!!

on Monday, May 7th, walt said

What's up Chuck? You once said you love a passionete argument. You can slam me as hard as you like while you're anonymous. Come out in public so everyone else knows who you are. Step out into the light where we can all see you. Let's really level the playing field. Let me untie my other hand put both gloves on.

The reason I won't take you with me is because it would end badly. Just like here on aa. Those poor people wouldn't know what hit them.

And I've had a sense that I was not your friend for some time now. No one treats their friends the way you've treated me.

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

We are not friends.

on Monday, May 7th, Chuck said

Pompous j-e-r-k! fallacies my butt

on Monday, May 7th, walt said

Chuck, I don't accept your argument-- never will... too many fallacies. You don't know as much as you think you do about my record and I don't really need your help. It was never an option. I'll do fine by myself thank you.

Tell you what, instead of constantly nipping at my ankles why don't you come out of the closet, write your own blog and let me snipe anonymously at you? You should experience how you make your friends feel.

on Sunday, May 6th, Chuck said

"What can a community do to foster art and get the most of her benefits? For that you’ll have to come hear my talk on May 17th," Walter said.

Where is the talk?

on Sunday, May 6th, Chuck said

Thank you for understanding Mark! Great comments! I'm still hoping Walter will understand as well.

.
.
""""""""""""A teacher at a private art school, as Walter is, is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.""""""""""""""

on Sunday, May 6th, Mark said

Chuck may have a point in that it would not hurt for Walt to take with him an artist who is trying to make a living from their art in that community. Will it help the people Walt is going to talk to help support local artists? Maybe, but then it may do not good either. Some communities don't do much to help local arts and some do. The community I live in is active in the arts so long as it is historical arts, paintings, sculpture and even many plays and much music are Civil War based. An artist like me has a hard time doing anything because I do not reflect the history of this place. My point is; I can get angry about it, fume and rant, nothing will happen, or I can move, go to a place more contemporary artist freindly, but I will not at this time as this is home, and I like where I am. So any change that may accur will happen slowly as we non-historic artists work at it. Some here are angry but it does not serve to improve things. Anger can be good, it can be the seed to flurish into more, but anger is not the food to fertalize the seed, anger will only dry out the seed.

on Sunday, May 6th, Chuck said

I live in this community. I, and many others wish this community to rise above the level of a college town.

I stand up for all the artists who are NOT teachers, who are NOT students! I stand up for this town!

"""""""A teacher at a private art school is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting."""""""

on Sunday, May 6th, Chuck said

.

My point through all of this remains; a teacher at a private art school is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.

.

You know what you all? This is my community Walter is speaking at, not yours! He won't even say who or where he is speaking! I'm sick and tired of his school and the local university getting all the breaks! Yeah I'm a little mad about this!

.

on Sunday, May 6th, jose said

Chuck, I use the anger, I don't dish it out. The canvas is the arena, and the art is the punch I try to hit out as well as I can. If you get a KO with that I'm sure you will have served your muse better than with useless words and the expression of hateful feelings.

on Sunday, May 6th, matthew said

To sum up the cerebal writing of Jose: Chuck is but a childish and petty anger ridden paranoid person. Nobody is against Chuck but himself.

Chuck, you've only made a fool of yourself and have earned the scorn of many here.You, and only you, have put yourself into this corner. You talk the talk but offer nothing to back it up. Your views don't come across as disparaging, they are disparaging.

on Sunday, May 6th, Chuck said

Jose, are you aware of the British punk rock band of the late 70's called the S E X Pistols? Since you cite Paz, I find the Pistols very relevant here. In a song, they have the lyrics, "anger is an energy".

Really, my point through all of this remains; a teacher at a private art school is not supported by the community. A represenitive of one who is supported by the community, ie, an artist who sells work to this community, will shed light to this group in a very enlightening way and would make an excellent additional spokesperson at Walter's meeting.

I'm touched by your essay Jose. Yes I am a slave to my art. Yet, my art is what keeps me alive.

You know what you all? This is my community Walter is speaking at, not yours! He won't even say who or where he is speaking! I'm sick and tired of his school and the local university getting all the breaks! Yeah I'm a little mad about this!

.

on Sunday, May 6th, matt said

More power to you Walt! You are doing the right thing, the cool thing.

You certainly present your talk, in written form, well. I can imagine, based on everything I read that you write, your passion will make for a riviting talk. Although there are a number of good suggestions, I think what you have already will work.

on Sunday, May 6th, jose said

I am somewhat baffled, Chuck. Some of the things you have said along the way, especially the post before last, ring very true but they lost their importance because of the hatred in which they were shrouded in. I don’t know Walt personally, but I do know that the faults you attribute to him are irrelevant as proof of the truths you are trying to defend. Cerebral activity, the ability to juggle thoughts, does not amount to intelligence. If you are unable to harness that activity, if you have no focus, and if it doesn’t establish sufficiently momentous synapses, chances are you’ll be left with just that – thoughts popping up and down in your brain with no direction or impetus. Somehow you come across as a very limited artist, your anger seems to be your only focus – no matter how great and heavy with truth your work may be, as Walt often reminds us but we have yet to see, anger is its primary colour. Surely you must ammount to more than just that.

You say life is short, but what life, beyond the anger and the art? For someone who tells us that he serves art, I find the limitation rather disturbing. So you are a slave to art and happy to be in its shackles. How brave, how noble. I don’t really care much if you have generated for yourself the perception that you can only be an artist if you live exclusively from the proceeds of your art, this is a perception you are very well entitled to nurture. Who are we to say what is right and what is wrong.

Please, by all means, be true to yourself. But do not impose your limitations on others. It is not a universal truth that Art becomes greater because the artist was nothing more than an artist. In the 40’s Octavio Paz, while never giving up his writing or the founding of literary magazines and meeting other poets and artists, supported himself at odd jobs – including counting old banknotes before they were thrown into a furnace in the Central Bank of Mexico. Was he a lesser poet because of it? According to your reasoning this would be the case. Pray, how then does such a man go on to become a Nobel Prize laureate? Oh yes, I forgot, your qualms are in regard to teaching – he who knows how to ‘do’, does, and he who does not, teaches. Well, in the 70’s Paz also taught at Cambridge, at the University of Texas and Yale to mention but a few. He collaborated on projects with artists such as Motherwell, Alechinsky, Rauschenberg, among others. Now, where does such scattered activity leave your theory?

Artists share knowledge, the knowledge they have acquired whilst engaging life. Quite frankly, your view regarding your mentors and teachers comes across as disparaging, and personally I find that very shallow and lacking in humility. I would perhaps excuse your arrogance if you had shared some groundbreaking novelty with us, Chuck, but once again you have chosen to share very little [and the anger removed all the taste to it].

on Saturday, May 5th, Chuck said

Life is too short. You have a good heart and great intentions Walter. Good luck on your talk! Convince them all to buy buy buy! I love ya man!

on Saturday, May 5th, Chuck said

.
To put this back on track, in my opinion since it was asked for, the art history lecture will bore them and what should be added to the presentation is an artist with their comments, whose support comes directly from a community.
.

on Saturday, May 5th, c said

ha ha oh yeah I'm the angry one. oh yeah I made the choice to be an artist.... ha ha
still laughing....
still..
I could be doing something else for more money but instead I spew my anger about being a something or other artist ha ha ha
Teacher teacher please tell me what else I can do?
Teacher teacher please tell the world to buy art.
Teacher teacher you are so loved, please share your love with us!

ha ha ha laughing pretty good...
I really don't want to ba an artist! No really! It sucks! Teachers get everything and everyone thinks they know it all.
hah hahah
oh please please please oh please tell me what else i can do?
ha ha ha
I can't hold a job for more than two days. I aint got no money to invest.... please oh teacher thine great one, where do I look for that pot of gold?

on Saturday, May 5th, Mark said

That's great Walt. I would like to see his work, not to judge but just to see. We all make choices, I have, you have. I can not live by my teaching, it is part time, but it is better then a regular day job, and it helps to add to what I earn from my paintings (my wife's income helps as well, there I am very lucky) but I do not care how good one is, if they have made bad choices or just choices that limits them, and the choices are ours to own, then they should not judge others for their choices. If he is in a bad market perhaps he should move, if he wants to teach, teach, I do and I have no formal education in art. I just think that perhaps (and I do not know Chuck) his anger is misplaced, that he should work to find his center and to do what he needs to do to succeed and not rail against others for their choices, whether he agrees with them or not.

on Saturday, May 5th, Chuck said

"chosen him. There are other things he could do with his skills that might make him a better living", Walt said.

What the h e l l are you talking about? You don't know me! Please man of superior intellegence, tell me what the fricken hell else I could be doing!!!!!

man I am getting tired of your insults!

on Saturday, May 5th, Chuck said

Since I am such a petty j e r k, let me add some childish comments, I don't like Walter anymore. We were once friends. He is what he is and defends it. Good for him. I'm just a disgruntled little runt of an artist upset that the world doesn't buy my velvet oil paintings mounted on tree bark and really wished they did. I'm a petty untalented schmoe immersed in the art world embraced in an orgy of academic back scratching. Oh I'm probably unbalanced also because I just wrote 5 comments in a row. Go for it Walter. You know so much I'm sure those people are going to be swayed to the point of rushing to the first gallery they see and buying absolutely everything in the place. You are amazing Walter, I bow down to your superior intelligence. Please sir, tell those people about the low life scraggly unsophisticated types like me who really wish for the just the scraps off the table to eat!

on Saturday, May 5th, walt said

Yes. Mark, Chuck is an incredible artist. He's developed himself over the years and has managed to sell enough of his work to get by. It's a shame that he isn't making a better living from his work. He can take pride in that he has survived by art alone. He often says that being an artist is all he can be but the truth is he has chosen art as much as art has chosen him. There are other things he could do with his skills that might make him a better living. But he continues making art anyway. He's one of those artists who should be in a major art market where the prices would support him better. I admire him and respect his work or I wouldn't get into discussions like this with him.

on Saturday, May 5th, Mark said

I can't be wrong. It must be everyone else.

on Saturday, May 5th, Mark said

This is way off subject but I have to address this, sorry people.

Why would some one, want, to be taught by those who can not do, "Those who teach can't." I do not always agree with that. Attending a school is the easy way, you have teachers there to help you over the bumps. I know, though I am a self taught artist, over thirty years of hard work and counting, helping others over the rough spots is what I do when I teach. A real challenge and commitment is when you learn it on your own, talk about being in the muddy trenches. I get people who have college degrees in art who don't even know how to hold a brush and are amazed at what they do not know when they finally get it. Schools are great but are not for everyone. On the other hand, just because some one teaches, does not mean they do not know how.

on Saturday, May 5th, Chuck said

Yeah I wish I was a teacher. But I'm not. I'm stuck in the trenches. It's tough. Really tough. A lot of other people know how tough it is. I just can't get over this. It just rattles me that someone with a salary is addressing others to support local artists. I don't get it. Obviously I'm the only one writing that sees the problem in this. It reminds me of rich women painting watercolors one saturday afternoon a month who win grants from art agencies. ok ok ok teachers want to sell paintings also. (sound of arms raised in the air) I'm a **** a petty ****. Send in the wolves!

on Saturday, May 5th, Chuck said

Teachers have it made in the shade while others making art scramble. That's who is representing the artists? Petty?

on Saturday, May 5th, Chuck said

You know what? I really like Walter. For the sake of this argument, I wish I didn't know him. In the Mid-west, a majority of the commisions go to teachers. Academic connections are monsters! The school most often is the coat whose tail the teacher rides upon. Every artist should encompass the challenge and commitment of going to school. If you can't make the commitment of going to school then leave your paintings for your aunts family room. Maybe it's hard to understand that I stress education but rail against academia. Thank God for teachers! Teach those people to? how? why? for? support local artists, Walter.

on Saturday, May 5th, Chuck said

Just when you thought you were done, the wolves attack. So I'll play the game also,..."those who can, do, those who can't, teach." It's an age old adage. Why? It's self explanatory.

Walter makes some good art, is extremely knowledgeable in art history, is well liked and very personable, but..... he is not supported by the community, he is supported by the school he works at. He is talking to a group about why they should support local artists. I'm sticking up for all those people who are NOT teachers and students! I'm sticking up for all those people who actually depend on the community for support!

Honestly, I only skimmed Walter's blog. If I were sitting and listening to all of it I probably would fall asleep. Just imagine this meeting with Walter speaking his expertise in art history and an artist or two from the community saying a few words about how fricken tough it is to live as an artist (remember, teachers have salaries). Maybe an artist from the community would say something like; "The only true way an artist knows his art is liked and appreciated is when someone buys it. Artists are a vital resource to any and every community. Buy their work or they will leave!"

I doubt too many local artists are as eloquent of a speaker as the practiced lecturer of a teacher but they sure would give great insight to the mud in the trenches of surviving as an artist! I live in a bubble. I don't know very many artists. There are plenty out there. Hell bring one in from out of town if you have to!

I went to a University with a great art department. I also went to a private art school. I remember teachers stressing to me that I should never become a teacher. They told me about how day in and day out they had to prod the underacheivers in the classes. They told me how exhausted they would become from having to unload their own creativity among the students. Creativity they wished they could keep for their own art. Teachers are extraordinary vital people who sacrifice their own art for the sake of others!

Sacrifice is good for the artist you say, what's wrong with sacrificing some of your art for others? Well, art truly is what propells humankind forward. Some people have to give it all they got to take us onward!

Walter, find some artists supported by the community and take them with you, please!

on Saturday, May 5th, walt said

Yes, Mat and Chuck. It has been petty.

on Saturday, May 5th, Mark said

Careful Matthew I said basicaly the same thing and was told different, I agree with you.

I think Chuck might be one of those artists who have studied hard, worked hard and feel that they should be making a living at thier craft, and when they do not, it must be everyone else's fault. There is a deep set anger there, (Chuck your anger seems very familiar to me, is Chuck your real name?) and he feels that Walt went to the dark side by becoming a teacher and to keep his job Walt must bring in new students to crank out as artists, and maybe Walt is no longer a real artists because he teaches. Well no matter how hard one studies or works, no matter how good they may be, society ownes them nothing (it would be nice to see what you do Chuck). If schools want to crank out artists, or if someone is self-taught and call themselves an artists, (me) so be it. If an artist can not take the pressure from the commpetition from good or bad artists, from real artists or those who just think they are artists, then find other work. The whinning gets tiresome. It matters not if you are a doctor, plumber or artists, if you are not successful you have only yourself to blame.

Walt I wish you luck with your presentation, maybe Chuck will be there to listen. I do have one point though, from a self-taught ARTIST, part time art teacher, who makes very little money from my art. Just from re-reading the six points at the beginning of your blog I wonder if you might be going well over your audience's head? I do not know who you will be talking to and thier experiance with the arts. It has been my experiance when talking to non-artists to be careful with the abstract ideas and give them more nuts and bolts ideas. Just a thought.

on Saturday, May 5th, matthew said

Walt and Chuck,

You guys should step away and read what you both have written.

The first image that comes to mind: Two children.

Walt, this thing between you and Chuck is petty and it takes away from what you are trying to accomplish here (this AA blog).

on Friday, May 4th, chuck said

if you woulda asked before all this crap started i would have loved to. been thinkin who else you could ask and i aint got a clue. so screw it im done

on Friday, May 4th, walt said

You mean you?

on Friday, May 4th, Chuck said

Maybe no one in your town IS supported by the community. How sad! Well old chap, do your best to change that!

on Friday, May 4th, Chuck said

"My focus is to talk to this group and hopefully encourage them in their intentions to support local artists", Walter said.

Well you did finally admit to your art school recruitment as being part, side issue as you called it, of your talk. How big a part is yet to be seen. Thing is, you consider students as artists. Hence, hey, merry merry recruiter is thee!

I just think it's crap that a teacher is doing this alone! Man, you don't know what it's like to be supported by the community! A LOT has changed from 20 years ago Walt!

Can't you find someone who IS supported by the community and take them with you? That's not going to diminish who you are! Trust me, it really will make you look better AND bring some representation to those who depend on the community!

on Friday, May 4th, walt said

It has little if anything to do with my talk. And this group has little if any interest in the college. This is an issue you should take up with the college administration if you feel that there is something that can be done about it. I've done what I can in my department when I was chair. We cut our program in half. Let go a number of faculty and made it a bit harder for kids to choose us as their major. I have nothing to say about the fine art program here. So for me it is a side issue. Yours more than mine.

My focus is to talk to this group and hopefully encourage them in their intentions to support local artists.

on Friday, May 4th, Chuck said

Side issue my butt! Try only issue you art school recruitor!

on Friday, May 4th, walt said

Nope. As I said before this is a side issue. Get over it.

on Friday, May 4th, Chuck said

.

You need to change the title of your talk to: "Why communities should send their children to CCAD."

.

on Friday, May 4th, walt said

Chuck, its a tradition that every art school in the country and around the world does. It's as old as the clouds. Neither of us is gonna change it. The thing is that those artists who have gotten to their maturity need to stand out against those students. I'm telling you some of them are as good and better than some of the local artists in Columbus. Lucky for us they tend to leave town the quickest.

But this isn't an issue related to my talk. This is a separate issue and not the only separate issue. The fact that there are among some of the really great artists in Columbus and central Ohio some really bad ones. And just like you can't get rid of art schools you won't get rid of the stinkers out there who have it in their heads they are something. Its a free country. Anyone can do what they want. You and I can preach against it but there isn't much to do about it...except maybe teach! At least I know the bulk of the kids we turn out in my department are truly comptetitive. Teaching is the only positive solution in the end.

on Friday, May 4th, Chuck said

Five years after leaving art school and they are still making art? THEN they can be called artists. THEN they will be on the path of developing their own voice. When a community is driven and manipulated into thinking students are artists for the shear reason of enrollment enhancement, that community will not ever be a leader in the arts!

By far, this is not a side issue. This is a core issue of econonomic and cultural advancement and specifically, how a community supports their artists!

Walter, you talk of wanting higher prices for artwork locally. Well, the community thinks all those students are artists and go down to the school sales and pay pittance. This pittance is then subjected upon the local artists. I understand how you can't bite that hand that is feeding you. This whole idea of a teacher supported by a private art school talking to a group of people about how artists should be supported in the community grates my nerves. It is not personal! It's just not right!

on Friday, May 4th, walt said

While I agree that there are probably too many art schools there are even more University art programs and they are the worst when it comes to undergrad education. At least the CCAD kids have some skills when they come out.

Frankly there would be just as many artists out there whether schools took in more or less. Just look at how many untrained or self taught people there are here on aa.

But these are side issues.

on Thursday, May 3rd, art said

www.art.lojadeluxo.com

on Thursday, May 3rd, Mark said

...and who should fill them?

on Thursday, May 3rd, c said

...and most often, those hands are empty.

on Thursday, May 3rd, Mark said

Turn out to many painters or sculptors? That is not a schools concern or obligation to worry about if they flood the market. I am sure a schools concern is enrolment how else do they stay in business. It is not the obligation of a community to support art it is nice if they do. I think often artists feel a bit of entitlement as if because they attended art school they should be able to make a living at it, or even if they are self taught that society should help them make a living. NO! The only obligation to art is that the artist do the best job he/she can, and market themselves as best they can. Schools, communities and other art entities have no obligation to support, or train only a certain number so as not to train to many. Making a living is the artists obligation and no one else's. If competition is to much for an artist then they should find other work. Let the schools pump out as many artists as they can, it is the artist's job to work with that. Now see I am off subject.

What I mean by being off subject is that I thought Walt was just putting some ideas out there about community support. The argument that has ensued went beyond that to what seems like personal issues between the two of you, Walt and Chuck. If I am wrong sorry.

But lets remember, in regards to artists making a living or training, it is the artist who must be in control of thier destiny, not a school, not a community or galleries or collectors. It all rests in the artist's hands.

on Thursday, May 3rd, Chuck said

Everything spoken of here is on topic. This man is speaking to a community group. Everything about the man and the topic is relevent.

Many schools of art believe that students should not sell what they make for they are merly regurgitating their teachings and have yet to acheive their own voice. CCAD however, uses student art sales as a major marketing ploy. The newspapers, radio, tv, are all flooded with an advertising campaign of student art sales. Students are advertised as artists.

The marketing arm of this school is so immense that it often overwhelms to the point of positioning professional artists in the community as inferior. The public is being led on a disinformation campaign of who artists are for the simple self serving reason of enrollment fullfillment. Cutting edge emerging artists, these students are marketed as, while they have yet to even leave the nest!

Off track? No! This man is speaking to a group of people about supporting local artists while his support comes from an entity concerned more for itself than for the community. Sure this school will say they care about the community but we all know enrollment comes first.

Once again I will say that Walter should take along an artist who is actually funded by the community he is speaking with. Let this community know their artists are starving!

on Thursday, May 3rd, walt said

You're right Mark. But Chuck has brought up one issue that is relevant. Every art school, college and university in the country is guilty of trying to train far too many young artists for the fine arts. If everyone of them were to go out and try to make it as an artist no one would be able to make much for their efforts. However, CCAD is largely a commercial art school with the predominant number of grads working in the fields most fine artists ignore. In fact I teach mostly in the area of illustration not fine arts. So little danger there of turning out too many painters or sculptors.

on Thursday, May 3rd, Mark said

I mean no disrespect Walt, your blog is an interesting one and an important one and I wish you luck on how ever, you decide to do your presentation, but I think it is time to move on. your intended blog has gone way off to left feild, and I will blame no one, Chuck. You two should agree to disagree and move on. Please. LOL

on Thursday, May 3rd, Chuck said

Enrollment

Your school has grown so large it's sucking the life out of the arts in your town.

on Thursday, May 3rd, Walt said

And what agenda is that Chuck?

on Thursday, May 3rd, Chuck said

Walt, I never attacked you personally, only teachers in general. In fact, in my comments, I praised you highly. You on the other hand, resorted to mentioning the gossip of my living with someone for some type of argument of support.

In the manner of giving an art history lecture to any group of people, Walter King is by far an absolutely excellent choice! In the manner of why communities should support their local artists, I think an artist who receives support directly through that community via sales from that community, is better served to talk to them. Walters main support comes from a private art school with a whole set of their own agendas.

on Thursday, May 3rd, Walt said

Thanks for all the comments. I apologize that we got a bit off track. The purpose of the talk I will give to this group is to answer their request to talk on a particular topic. Why art is important and how to support it. The talk is not to promote myself. I won't be paid...I should say there has been no discussion of payment or an honorarium...so I assume I am doing this for free. I will not show slides of my own work. I will not even discuss my own career except as it relates to the subject. My talk is geared to explaining how important art can be to a society and therefore to the smaller community. I've only included the primary introduction because it is more general and universal. I didn't feel I had room in this blog to get deeply into the suggestions I would make. However we have covered some of them in the responses.

As to Chuck's suggestion that somehow I am or will make slanderous statements or spread rumors...well,Chuck, someone besides me would have to know who you are first. Then I would actually have to say something that wasn't true about you. I've protected your identity even though you've attacked me personally. I could easily out you but I won't. I'd prefer that you do that yourself. It might even do you some good.

on Thursday, May 3rd, Ellen said

Hi Walt!
Great blog! As a New Yorker, I've had the opportunity to appreciate the huge funds channeled into the arts in NYC. On the other hand, I weep when I see the mass destruction of the arts when I see magnificent old buildings relpete with stone carvings and interior murals torn down to make way for sterile high rises. The stone carvings will never be replicated, too much money and there are no longer the numerous skilled artisans who can do that type of fabulous work. If there are, who will factor their salaries into the price of a condo? I also saw this disregard for some buildings in Europe, years ago. I think it sets the tone for a total lack of appreciation for what humans have wrought with their hands and minds....to say nothing of the heart and soul. However, progress and updating will continue regardless.
As far as what can be done for the future: all I can address is that which I personally subscribe to: educating the public: rich and otherwise. I have volunteered numerous times in the schools, as many of us have. When my children were small, I did class art projects and enlisted others to donate supplies. I tried to get the community involved by showing the work (without giving me credit) so that the children could see their art displayed in a public place, ie the library or a store. I lectured on a variety of art related topics, like you are doing, Walt, to inform the community. Not topics that would necessarily promote my own work, but the work of the late greats or living artists or how ANYONE could create using those mysterious (to the layman) materials like watercolors. In New Hampshire, where my folks left me a small place, I run workshops for kids or adults, gratis. I've also donated my work to the library and town buildings because it is of the New Hampshire landscape. Recently I donated an image to a legal group that promotes the arts and does pro bono work for artists.
Believe me, I'm not looking for praise. I am just getting by and doing my personal thing for my communities. I need the money and LOVE to get paid for my work....and I do work. But, I view my efforts as an investment. I support my community artistically. Maybe my community will support the arts AND me. I'm not totally without personal motive. I do get recognized for my volunteer/ donation efforts. But I feel that I cannot live in a vacuum... I belong to a place that I must contribute to or make better.
The BEST pay I EVER got was after an Artist in Restdence I did for the AMC near Mt. Washington, NH. I gave a watercolor workshop and was encouraged to bring a bunch of work to sell. I sold nothing, but did donate a piece to the AMC for the lodge. Although I did not get paid for this stint, I was given lovely accomodations and a fabulous area in which to work. Several people took advantage of the workshop. One man was suffering from arthritis. However, he could manipulate the brushes he brought with him. He and his wife were not staying at the lodge, but in a trailer park nearby. They traveled all over the country and stopped at places that afforded them activities. The man told me that he liked to stop for art. We really communicated about art for two days because of a shared passion. Two months after I returned home, I got a letter with a $30 check in it from the man. He wrote that I had opened up his world and at seventy, he felt "his new life begin." Best money I ever made!

on Thursday, May 3rd, Mark said

Wow, such emotions. I haven't seen anything like this for a good while. I may be coming into this conversation to late and maybe I shouldn't even enter into it but here goes for what it is worth. I don't know either Walt or Chuck other then from the blog, though I have read many of Walt's blogs. Maybe what Mathhew said is correct in that you are both right. I have been an artist for more then thirty years, have yet to make a living off it (I am a very bad businessman) So I have done grunt jobs to support myself and family most of that time. I paint full time and teach on a part time basis, I do not earn enough to support the family but my wife works and that helps. Here is my point, does all this discussion realy matter as to who has had the harder life, who supports themselves from the art? (The old story of the starving, struggling, angry artists is so tiring) Truth is if you sell enough of your work to support yourself or teach art or sell the art of other artists, you are making a living by your art. The community who you want to either support local artists or buy local artists work do not realy give a rats ass as to how you make your living, they are going to support art or buy art because they want to, not because it will help an artist live. Who here will go to a particular plumer just so he can support his family? No one. You go to the plumer who can do the best job for the best price, we don't care if he can make a living at it or not. My other point here is that this is all such a waste of energy that could be better spent at making art. Why care so much how one makes a living? An artists should be judged by their work not if they support themselves by thier work or not. Beside having an outside income can help an artist create the work they realy want and not to have to create what might sell, with that freedom can come great art.

on Thursday, May 3rd, matthew said

Walter and Chuck,

Perhaps you are both right i.e. you both argue and support your points.

I think a lot of people can relate to both points view. I do.

I think it's basically an endless circle you've gotten into... this theme has most likely been 'raging' for decades upon decades. There's no winner.

on Thursday, May 3rd, Chuck said

Teachers are supported by the schools they teach at. Artists are supported by the public they sell to. Friendships are lost through gossip and slander.

on Thursday, May 3rd, walt said

Mary K, its two old friends airing their linen in public. Sorry.

on Wednesday, May 2nd, Mary K. said

So where is this talk?

on Wednesday, May 2nd, walt said

Chuck, I've been dealing with people who buy art far longer than you have. I made my living primarily as an artist for 17 years. From 1976 through 85 it was my only income. I even put myself through two degree programs. Paid my own bills, tuition etc.

On the other hand I do talk about other artists and put them forward all the time. Including you. Do I think you are any more a real artist than I am? Do you really want me to answer that question in public? So I practice what I know about art by teaching. And now I make a decent living from it. Sure I don't spend quite as much time in the studio because of that. But no less than you do when you have to do all that marketing, make all those cold calls to get people into your studioso you can sell just enough to pay your rent next month. What about those times you were sharing living space with someone else? Were you making your living solely from your work? Or was someone else paying for part of your expenses? You know since I know who you are you are much more vulnerable. Really. Who has the bigger ego?

on Wednesday, May 2nd, Chuck said

This is exactly why asking a t