Replies: 44 Comments
on Sunday, November 19th, jose said
But then again, Paul, you are, in my opinion, one very special exception to most gallery owners one would encounter.
on Saturday, November 18th, Paul Dorrell said
This subject comes up a lot--and I mean a lot--with artists I carry, encounter, or occasionally work with. I tell them all the same thing: create strictly from passion and vision; do not compromise on either one; when done well, we'll help them find the market--assuming it exists for their work. Unfortunately the more gutsy, and visionary, work is normally decades ahead of the tastes and drives of the market. The good news? This is less true now than it was in Van Gogh's and Pollock's day.
on Wednesday, November 15th, jose said
I have no objections, those were merely suggestions - I'll make the best of what is made available to us. Thanks for your time and efforts Markus.
on Wednesday, November 15th, Matt said
Thats' the way Markus!
on Wednesday, November 15th, Markus Kruse said
If we use a predetermined ruleset there is a way around it as well. Having to show your email address won't work either because the offender can then put in that email address or name as well. If we need to have a registration requirement it will make many stay away. If we start restricting there will be a way around it, forcing us to restrict it even more. Thus, what's the point in the end if there is always a way around it with a counter restriction until we can't breath any longer. We try to keep it as non censored as possible. If there is an offender that is going on and on and on we will delete it, otherwise we don't censor!
on Monday, November 13th, Walt said
Personally I'm for freedom of the press and freedom of speech in general. If AA.com decides from time to time that something is BS and removes it, well, its their site. And they do it so rarely and with such a light touch most of the time that I often hardly notice. It isn't a governmental site or a not for profit so they have that liberty. I'd rather be subject to the owners judgement and justice then that of a mechanical set of rules. Yes it gets sloppy sometimes but at the same time rules, even a jury can get terribly restrictive.
on Monday, November 13th, Andrew said
Like a vote, kind of, where the only voters would be those who felt strongly enough to say something? That might work. At least it would give an impression of how non-valid people found the comment. If a comment got no 'no' votes, it could stay black, and the more 'no' votes it got, the lighter grey it could become. It sounds a bit 'lord of the flies' to me though, somehow, something about this just isn't really there yet. The stronger personalities will probably vote twice.
on Monday, November 13th, jose said
Andrew, I would say that Markus and a consensus of those who send e-mails to aa voicing concerns should act as judges on what is greyed-out. If it is the way it works for suppression, it can equally be a democratic way to determine what is grey and what stays black on white. I’m not questioning Markus’ view on this, it is just a suggestion to keep all the text – as long as it doesn’t get down to porn and pharma stuff – and make it easier for those who want a sensible and straightforward read with no nonsense. Though ultimately, I can only but agree with you, no distinction – no net under the trapeze – would be ideal.
on Monday, November 13th, Andrew said
Jose, there is some of what you say that I agree with, and some that I don't. Who is to be the judge of what gets greyed out and what doesn't? Those who would be the judges are already the most judgemental, and therefore the least qualified. I know I've crossed over that grey area threshold a few times, but I wouldn't want to be frightened of saying what I want to, so as not to cross it. This set, the deletions and the heckling, in the end have only deepened your understanding I'm sure, though it may have been a rough road.
We create an image on our homepages, and with what we write. All of us. It is intentional. We are restricted by the image we wish to portray. That's a hard thing to get past, and adding another set of restrictions would take us that much further from the truth. When I suggested what I suggested in my previous comment, I did so because I wanted to show that this could get a lot worse. Absolute freedom is a Pandora's box. We are like the actors in Lost, each confined to a role of our own creation, one who wants to be a leader, one a renegade, one who wants to make up for past sins. A Lord of the Flies world, with a somewhat distant leader, Markus, who only steps in occasionally when he feels it is absolutely neccesary. And given the evolution of Absolutearts, further evolution has its own importance. I vote once again for absolute freedom. Let's see where it takes us.
on Monday, November 13th, jose said
I have read Markus's e-mail to me and understand his reasons. I can also understand the readers' concern at the disruption that sometimes occurs through vicious anonymous posts, they sometimes bug me too. But I scroll to the next significant piece of text. I am only concerned that some of the enthusiasm in participating on this forum will slowly wither away from the side of the bloggers and more engaged commentators. For my part I fear seeing myself writing the piece and not bothering to allow my thoughts to interconnect beyond that and to not comment further like others whose reasons I can fully understand and do not question. Time is indeed precious. But I enjoy contributing to these debates and, as I’ve said, they sometimes energize me and give me ideas I take with me to the studio. I would be sad to loose that dimension of things. But maybe this is the way it should be, Bloggers blog and commentators comment – though I fear this would become a very distant forum with us ‘bloggers appearing almost as demigods. Again, [and barring any pornographic, pharmaceutical, or otherwise truly offensive garbage which does not belong here and should be removed] I ask if the possibility of formatting posts from disgruntled anonymous pranksters so that it appears in a much lighter font is not a solution that would satisfy all parties concerned and help us to detect and scroll to the more ‘serious’ thread of ideas that are meaningful to us, without certain responses loosing their pertinence?
on Sunday, November 12th, Vick said
Jose, I am sorry you are upset that comments have been removed, but personally I am glad that AA did see fit to block and remove. Fiesty differences of opinions are one thing but insanity is quite another.
Andrew, with all due respect, I wouldn't find it too amusing if people posted using my name. I will try and remember to insert my AA web address so my name highlights to blue, but I guess in the end that doesn't prove much, either.
Connie and Brad-- healing and criminology--I like the idea of both!
on Sunday, November 12th, Jacv said
Just take the bull by the horns and deal with it is probably the best way to go about it. The only thing that can be asked is for people to use some king of decorum.
If AA has every right to delete and/or edit blogs and comments as they see fit. They rarely do that and when they do, it's usually a good call.
on Sunday, November 12th, Andrew said
May I make a suggestion? If people started posting comments as if they were, say, Jose, or Connie, or Vick, but were really someone else, that might be pretty funny too!
on Saturday, November 11th, Connie said
If I may gently make a suggestion.... An old criminology professor once said that people would be less likely to speed if their spedomoter were on the OUTSIDE of the car, rather than the inside. AbsoluteArts could make "e-mail" a required field when one wanted to submit something to an AbsoluteArts blog. A person would not have to be an AA member (and thus no censorship of those outside the AA circle, a point raised by some). However, they would have to list an e-mail address. I'd think this would cut down on some of the slamming. A bit of technological situational 'crime' prevention, if you will. Just my opinion, which of course everyone is free to disregard. --Connie
on Saturday, November 11th, Brad said
Sorry I made my contribution to this train wreck that was below Jose's very nice blog. I have heard its only through our good graces that healing begins. Bless you everyone and goodnight.
on Saturday, November 11th, Markus Kruse said
Jose, Check you email box at home, I sent you a personal response to your comments below, explaining the situation here that I think should remain private for the sake of everyone involved. Thanks.
on Saturday, November 11th, jose said
This [by now ridiculous exchange of anonymous posts is all rhetoric]. If you decide fame and fortune are the motor behind what you do I am not going to be the one to contest that. Be my guest. What this blog was attempting to establish was to alert those people who are in the early stages of their careers as artists that the focus should be on the Art and the work in the studio. Since my last comment yesterday was wiped off my own blog and I don’t know whether it is possible to get it back I’d like to thank all the compañeros who helped out … ah, yes, and now a flash of what I wrote comes back: in our tradition of bull-fighting the last man holds on to and twists the beast’s tail while the others move away - perhaps heckler phil might like to assume that position given his penchant for appendixes. I’m moving away from this one.
on Saturday, November 11th, jose said
I love that bit in 'A Fish Called Wanda' where Kevin Kline, in one of his more memorable roles, discovers the loot is not in the safe, the antics are hilarious, the line goes: 'I am very disappointed!'
I'm very disappointed!
on Saturday, November 11th, jose said
This is definitely not in tune with what I have written here. Wiping the ‘bull’ off the screen will not help either bloggers or the commentators who resort to such disruptive interventions. By wiping them away, Markus, you risk hurting aa more than leaving what they say. As long as it’s people with small appendixes yelling for attention and as long as it’s not porn or advertisements pushing enhancement drugs I’d say leave them be. In the end they’ll destroy themselves because, even if anonymous, their pernicious behaviour will only deteriorate their chances further at a level they’ll have to discover on the psychiatrist’s couch or in the labyrinths of the loony-bin they are slowly building for themselves.
on Saturday, November 11th, jose said
Markus, what is going on? I got up this morning to discover that half the comments were gone, and that one of those was the last one I posted, signing out, so to speak, and thanking my compañeros. What remains is incomprehensible and I’m starting to not enjoy this anymore. Andrew and I have called for no censorship and I’m sure most of the people who contribute with blogs and comments would agree that this ought to be an open forum. So, there are hecklers and phils and whatever they want to call themselves, but that is the nature of the beast. Would it not be possible to leave these less pertinent contributions but format them in a lighter shade of grey – but still legible? In this way bloggers’ response to these would still make sense but people not wishing to loose their time with the nonsense could just move on to the next patch of black font. Would this not be a feasible solution? Can you get my last post back on or is it irretrievably lost?
on Friday, November 10th, Connie said
And on the subject of fame/success... if I may offer an anecdote from something outside the visual arts. A family member is a relatively successful poet. (Number of published books. Not earning a living solely on it. Nearly somewhat famous - that is to say, less than somewhat famous. Possibly known among other poets, probably not outside the circle. Gets to spend time writing nearly every day, which is what he loves.) Anyhow, he was beat out for a sizeable poetry prize (forget the name; in the range of $100K, I believe) by another poet who was probably already too successful to technically fit the prize's submission criteria. The guy who won is, I believe, independently wealthy so he doesn't work; AND he has an agent. So life goes on. My relative keeps writing. As he told me once, 'You don't do it for the money.' (Although the money would, I'm sure, be nice.)
on Friday, November 10th, Markus said
True... monumental would require trailer and crane... what do you have that fits or can be pulled with my f250???
on Friday, November 10th, 5 said
jose, the equation the artist seeks is fame AND fortune. Fame is popularity. Fortune is money. Money buys your work but fame sells it.
on Friday, November 10th, Markus said
I never thought your work was mediocre... come on!
on Friday, November 10th, bill said
Yes, I have a lot of mediocre figurative work. Will that do?
on Friday, November 10th, absolutearts said
we have plenty of acerage at the office, we need some free monumental sculpture out here... do you know anyone?
on Friday, November 10th, 1 said
"If you want some constructive work to do, we have plenty for your to do."
cool..like what?
on Friday, November 10th, absolutearts.com said
hahaha... you are to funny! I haven't laughed this hard in a while. Need some work??? Like I said we have plenty for your to do, big man!
on Friday, November 10th, absolutearts.com said
Bill, Heckler, ok, h, kurt... whatever you want to be today.
KNOCK IT OFF!!!!
If you want some constructive work to do, we have plenty for your to do.
The drive from your house out to our offices is only about 45 minutes!!! Got it?
on Friday, November 10th, bill said
Come on AA, delete all the annoying fake names if you are going to start editing finally.
Why allow one member to hide behind anonymous posts?
on Friday, November 10th, jose said
There seems to have been an intrusion here for a moment. There were 2 comments here from a Bill and a bill at which my last post was aimed at, but as I submitted it these were substituted by an *. Markus, what seems to be going on?
on Friday, November 10th, jose said
Bill, bill? You seem to be an intelligent guy but somehow you still haven't got it, have you? There goes a long way between selling your stuff and being fortunate enough to make a reasonable living out of it, and being famous. You know that. I enjoy being in the studio working on my art regardless of what the market and the people want, even if that means making a reasonable living instead of making millions. Millions cost too much and keep you in slumber. Happy to know that you think I'm famous.
on Friday, November 10th, jose said
Bill, precisely no, this is a problem I decided long ago not to have to face. I was confronted with it twice in the 90’s and told that the only way I would make it was if I stuck to a particular line of work and set aside a few odd ideas I was working on at the time. I preferred to leave the gallery and move on. Now, I paint, and when I have a body of work I try to get a gallery interested or an interesting space to show them and sell them myself. Most of the times the initial response is luke warm and I probably won’t sell a painting from a new series for a year or so, but I keep working. What usually happens is that when I move on people than come and ask me if I still have something from a series they saw a year or two ago. I have to hold on to one or two of each series [that maybe run from 60 to 80 paintings] to keep for future days or I would be left without a register of the whole continuum. Most of my stuff goes – fortunately.
Now, heckler phil would probably say this is fame and that I went after it, but fame is something else. I’d say I manage to make myself visible to some extent in the places where I decide to work and I agree with you Bill that the more chances you get [or create for yourself] to be seen the more you may sell. Aa has definitely helped me expand visibility of my work a little beyond my back yard but I wouldn’t say that what led me to appear on aa was aspiration to fame. It is a public relations tool that helps to sell my work in my back yard and, slowly, beyond. I’m left with a lot of freedom.
Fame is something else. I think there is a stickiness about it – on the one hand it sells you more paintings, but if you are still alive when it comes to you it can stifle you if you are not ready to handle it. And this is my point – you will only be ready to handle it if all along you have developed the practice of following your own course, your own vision, and acquired an inner strength that will help you to not falter when you are famous but the time comes to move on as an artist.
Let’s not censor this forum. I agree with Andrew that this would not be beneficial, we need input from the outside or we’ll stink to high heaven. I actually think some of heckler’s recent contributions are rather humorous and even though he does lash out at some of us there is something lurking between the lines. Besides, how else will I ever get a shot at matching Paul’s comment ratio?
on Friday, November 10th, Andrew said
The problem is, this space needs input from the outside or it will become sterile. You can't really censor anyone without having that effect. And there are actually some points that Phil (that's the first name I saw if I remember correctly) raised which are insightful. At the same time there's a lot of chaff even from sincere and polite commenters. You have to sift through a lot of leaves to find the mushroom, as they say in Poland.
on Thursday, November 9th, Brad said
Jose' - Thanks for your blog...
---
Markus,
Perhaps we need to only allow ‘aa members’ with portfolio addresses to post here - as so to gather some control over the little boys with small penis's who must exhibit themselves till called out. Pity. Members would like to learn here, and not be bullied by idiots.
on Thursday, November 9th, heckler said
e. I am a tortured artist
on Thursday, November 9th, heckler said
I would like to apologize for my shallow comments and petty attacks on this blog. I have a very small penis and need to overcompensate in other ways for this incredibly tiny limp appendage. My penis is the reason I seek fame. Fame will buy me women. Women who will sleep with me and won’t notice my deficiencies because I am famous and they are shallow. If they are really accommodating, I might even buy them a boob job. This still won’t make up for my very small penis, but it will make other men as shallow as me envious, and that is its own reward. I will be on the cover of Art News chomping on a cigar and we all know what Freud said about cigars. Oh I wish I wasn’t an artist. I wish I were just a humble servant of the Corporation like all those other semi-comatose worker bees. It is so hard to be a tortured genius; you people just have no idea. That is why I have to keep posting here telling you that fame is what you really seek. Imagine how great your life would be if you had a normal sized penis and fame! My God, you could rule the world! Who wouldn’t want that? So pardon me if I continue to post anonymously. Just know it is because my penis is very, very, small.
on Thursday, November 9th, heckler said
I wish I wasn't an artist. I wish I was that guy in the suit getting out of the office and going home to the pretty wife, the kids, the house, the dog... This life sucks. I must be paying dues for someones mistakes in a past life. I didn't choose this life as an artist, it chose me. If I don't make art my soul creeps out from under my skin and throws my own excrement in my face. Fame happens to all the right people in all the right places. Fame is the garbage that accumulates at the dump. Fame is my rotten candy bar melting in a pool of dog urine. Fame is the beauty of decaying leaves in the Fall. Fame is my warrior. Fame is my lover. Fame is the game!
on Thursday, November 9th, walt said
If the art itself isn't the prime motive, then I'd be happy working on a fishing boat, or cutting firewood for a living. I've had a little bit of recognition and while it feels good at first it becomes a weight around ones neck after a while. If I could sell enough art to quit my day job and still not be well known that would be just fine. Heckler is correct though on that thought. To sell at a certain level one becomes famous whether or not that is the goal.
But the real meat of all this is that time in the studio when you have been plugging away at a painting, or paintings in general for a period of time thinking "Well, these are ok but they are not really anything to sneeze at" and then the next day you walk in and bang out a new piece or resolve an older piece that had been a puzzle for a period of time. In fact, often enough its the 'being there' experience when you have that moment of clarity for however long it lasts and you realize what needs to be done to a piece, or a body of work...or all of a sudden you see an entire series of paintings stretch out from your head and actually get a good number of them accomplished...that's what keeps me going back to my studio. The rest, the marketing, the fame and schmoozing at openings, the artist statements... all that is just work. You gotta do it whether you like it or not.
on Thursday, November 9th, jose said
Andrew, just saw your comment popping up as I posted te previous reply. Fame can consume you as you say, and wouldn't you agree that it tends to drag a certain stench behind it when it becomes obvious that the lamborghini just doesn't manage to deliver the goods it promised?
on Thursday, November 9th, jose said
Vick, a painter friend of mine once got really angry at me because he was expounding on his thoughts and I didn’t intervene or contribute with any thoughts of my own, I just sat there and listened, keenly. I told him I was in total agreement with him and had no urge to have my ego barge in the process just to prove it had ideas of it’s own. I enjoyed ‘listening’ to you too and I don’t think there is anything more I’d like to add. We are in agreement.
Connie, lately I have decided to put in images of paintings in process. Some might be finished, some not, and some that I though were not finished suddenly look finished when I get the different perspective of seeing them like this. It’s an experiment I have found quite helpful. I sometimes get too caught up in my own imagery and feel the temptation to follow solutions that have proven to be big sellers. This is a way to loosen up a bit. And no, the paintings don’t interfere in my writing, at least not that I am aware of.
Heckler, if that’s the way you want to see it, why not? Ultimately, and philosophically, sure. If I decide that I am a creator, that I have a message or a vision that I believe to be new and want to share with others, than yes I am stating that I want to ‘stand out’ from the crowd and the more I manage to stand out the more likely it will be that the signal I emit will be detected. But what we are asking ourselves here is whether fame is the drive behind what we do or merely a vehicle. Personally, the art I appreciate most comes from the guys who see fame as the vehicle not as the motivation for the work.
Nowadays I drive a VW, not bad. It takes me places even though it’s not too flashy. I guess you could say I’m a VW kinda guy, and boy has it taken me places. I somehow can’t vision myself aiming for the Lamborghini or even, say, a Lexus. I know, deep inside that if I started aiming for the Lamborghini people would definitely turn their necks… but I’d probably be left with very little worth sharing with them. Somehow, fame opens up a similar kind of pandora’s box.
on Thursday, November 9th, Andrew said
You've always been a good writer, Jose, but this blog is one of your best. Partly because it is about an issue that everyone here is facing in one way or another, and then, simply because it's so well written.
On fame...it is what comes to most people who do something exceptional, whether they want it to or not. And it is so relative. You are famous on this site, even if no one knows who you are in Bogota. We who have been here a while know your work, some of the things you've done, and a lot about your take on the artist's role in the world. Fame by itself is irrelevant to what you do in your studio. Seeking fame, too hard, too much of the time, is bad for the creative process. And frustrating, because it takes time away from you doing the one thing which will bring it closer to you - creating something exceptional.
on Thursday, November 9th, Connie Hassett-Walke said
Hi, Jose. Good blog. Quick question: I've noticed that often when you post something you include a photo of a painting. Are they always your most recent works (e.g., you make a new painting, and then get inspired to blog something)? Or are they also existing works? Just wondering. And not that you need to hear it from me, but I think your work is wonderful. --Connie
on Thursday, November 9th, Vick said
Hi Jose--well said! I hope you collect your writings in a book someday.
As I've noticed on many of these blogs lately (the main ones and the ones off to the side), it seems many artists are grappling with this issue. Many of my comments to other blogs on the topic seem to have attracted some hecklers on the board who don't believe an artist wouldn't want fame. Fame is a loser's game. If fame is all one really wants, why do art? Aim a rifle at a politician's head, that'll get you famous instantly.
The desire for fame rests solely in the ego. There is a large part of any artist that wants to communicate, but communication at a human to human level. That true communication human to human doesn't care about being on a magazine cover.
I understand the frustration of those artists who have made sacrifices over the years to do art and they reach a certain age and say to themselves "what's it all been worth" if they haven't achieved some measure of success that they defined for themselves 20 years earlier. The stuggle early on isn't the same as the struggle 20 years into it with still no "reward" in sight. That is a vulnerable time for an artist, ego lurks, ready to do what it takes to be fed. Pander to the marketplace? Sure, why not? Nobody cares, nobody knows true art from schlock, right?
It's a dark artistic journey at that turning point. An artist at that point has to resist that lure and keep going. They have to reaquaint themselves with the reasons they first started doing art. They might have to turn themselves inside out and realign themselves, recalibrate. Or maybe they just decide to sell out or stop doing it altogether...it is a very vulnerable time.
I think it is possible to acheive a balance. My goal is to have as much studio time as I can carve out and cultivate relationships with 4-6 galleries to keep the paintings from stacking up and pay the bills, but not to the point I feel like I am relying on any one source that would make me vulnerable when a gallery director says something like "hey, red really sells, why don't you do one in red?". Cultivate, be professional, but also be willing to walk if necessary. Allow your work to continue to grow and find new galleries to support the new work if necessary. Gallery relationships like any other relationships are constantly evolving. It is a mutual evolution, artists shouldn't let it become a parent-child dependancy.
Anyway, thanks for your take on it. It's certainly been a topic on my mind lately and it seems like a lot of other artists. It will be interesting to see how this thread evolves.
There is, in the Portuguese tradition of Bull-fighting, a variant that distinguishes it from the more widely known Spanish version aside from the fact that the Star is not put to death in the arena – any aficionado will tell you that the Bull takes centre stage and that the best toreador, or toureiro as we say in Portugal, is simply the one who succeeds in making it shine. In my country, after the bull has been tired-down by the cape and the Bandarilheiros, a group of men leap into the arena to assist whomever they have selected from amidst their ranks, to take it by the horns. This is the ultimate moment, not the killing, but the encounter between one man [albeit assisted in the end by his mates] and a 500 kg charging beast. If there ever is a moment when time stops it is when you are alone in the arena and the bull decides to acknowledge you – between then and the moment you feel the arms of your compañeros holding you down from all sides you experience eternity.
