Replies: 16 Comments
on Friday, October 6th, Ron Massey said
Jose,
I understand your not wanting to get too deep into Ouspensky here. Internet forums are a place rife with misunderstandings, and these kinds of subjects are already knotty enough. I will find that book again which I think was "In search of the Miraculous " and read it. I'll also try to get my hands on " The Srange life of Ivan Osokin".
On the subject of privilege,... it is of course a very relative thing, and if I speak of it in my case, it means basically that I haven't had to suffer in the way so many people in Shailendra's Bhopal have...,..that I missed out getting conscripted for any absurd warfare,had a childhood as a child and youth as a youth in a generally pretty beautiful environment etc ,etc.
I did get Fripp's "Gates of Paradise"... Astounding music !(even for him), many sections of beauty but the most remarkable are the sonic blasts here and there which are simply frightening on a deep level (and I'm no stranger to this type of music). The liner notes as you said are certainly worth reading and thinking about at length, but in essence they are a clearly and simply expressed version of what is said in all the worlds major religions...and most minor ones) and that's what I missed in Ouspensky,.. who seemed to suggest no space for self-determination,freedom,redemption or improvement of one's situation, just an endless cycle of the same events in what might as well be a stuffy carpeted room than a world.(The only saving grace being that you're not supposed to know in any one life that you've already done it all x amount of times before,... well, at least you don't know it until a certain Mr Ouspensky one day tells you,... then you have or haven't the freedom to believe him ,.. or not. As I said, knots within knots! )A slap in the face can have no use to a being unable to alter their situation. Well perhaps I'm focusing too much on that one aspect of his writing, or as I said, have simply misunderstood some nuance in it.
Don't worry Jose , I don't expect you to react to this, the blogs have already moved on, and you're a busy man.
Thanks for the great music tip.
on Tuesday, October 3rd, jose said
How beautifuly put, Shailendra.
on Tuesday, October 3rd, shailendra said
The nature of absolute reality is like a hypothesis a dotted line a mist of light in the thick sea of DARKNESS. Artist senstivity captures and incapsulate the TIME in the work of art for inviting perceptive comments from future.
Shailendra
Artist and art critic from Bhopal
on Tuesday, September 26th, jose said
Ron,
I agree with what you say at the end of that last comment, the C.S Lewis quote comes from someone who, like us, probably never experienced the amount of pain some humans are expected to bear [he has the excuse that when he wrote it the media wasn’t as all-pervasive as it is today].
I don’t think Ouspensy was as starry-eyed. ‘Osokin’ was his only novel [though he did write two other short stories that you can find under the Title ‘Talks with a Devil’ but didn’t particularly impress me in comparison]. I don’t want to go to deep into him here for many reasons but his most interesting work rests in three books I highly recommend: ‘Tertium Organum’, ‘In Search of the Miraculous’ where he tells of his meetings with G.I Gurdjieff, and ‘The Fourth Way’ where he recounts some of the ideas and methods of the Latter’s system. Interesting stuff for an artist to get his hands on, and I’m sure you know them already.
Interesting that you should mention Bill Brufford and King Crimson. Working with [I’d dare say, listening to] Robert Fripp leaves nobody unscathed and I have reason to believe that Fripp’s methodology is rooted in Gurdjieff’s ideas. His stance in the music industry is as unique as his music – have you read the liner notes to his soundscape album ‘The Gates of Paradise’? And the text on Redemption in the same album? Loads to chew on there, lots to work on, not just for musicians but for artists in general.
I can understand how you felt though. I can see where you get the feeling of boredom from, or the sense of horror. Recurrence is a nasty topic, even in it’s softer Buddhist version, Rebirth. Not everyone feels at ease with these ideas I grant you that. But they are ideas science is coming increasingly close to substantiate and help us understand, scary as the whole new vision of things may appear to us as we move into the new era.
Personally, as I said in my last comment to you, I take it as a slap on the face. Osokin’s tale helps me to stay alert and grab a hold of certain weird moments when a different kind of reaction is possible… to stay on track. If you still have it read it through, you’ll see what I mean when he meets the magician again.
Tot ziens
on Tuesday, September 26th, josé said
Ron, I'll get back to you more thoroughly after a day's work and pondering at the studio. I take it the book you read was 'Strange Life of Ivan Osokin'. Interesting how you found it depressing, many people do. My brother also stopped half way. For me it was a slap on the face and helps me to stay alert and grab a hold of certain weird moments when a different kind of reaction would be called for from my part, other than the 'normal - expected - preferred - easy way out' I naturally tend to favour out of habit and upbringing [I too had a privileged childhood]. I didn’t really want to bring in the bulk of Ouspensky in here but I felt it could be insightful to share those thoughts on the side of things we normally don’t pay much attention to and science is starting to reveal to us exists.
on Monday, September 25th, Ron Massey said
Jose,
Just briefly again on the subject of Ouspensky and that model of eternal rebirth. Until now ,I've had a life of general painlessness and privilege,so,to me such a model only represents boredom and futility but for people who in this life have only known pain ,want and degradation it's a horror.
C.S Lewis who I consider a Modern Christian Metaphysisist , certainly worth reading ,said in " The Problem of Pain" something like.. 'There can't be any more pain in the universe than the amount that one person can bear' . That was probably also (almost certainly) just a poke in the dark. It's a beautiful comforting thought in the best of Christian tradition but it was written by someone who like myself has not ever directly experienced the amount of pain that some humans are expected to bear.
on Monday, September 25th, Ron Massey said
A good thing that you brought up the subject, because I’ve gradually over the last years had to come to the conclusion that lack of healthy self-doubt (or the pretence thereof) permeating almost all areas of endeavour in western society is gradually driving us into a maelstrom of collective insanity.
In the time of Nero it was the dubious privilege of a few ,now as with so much else , everyone wants to be in on the act. It began in the business world, extended to politics and eventually set it’s rot into almost everything else including parts of the “art world”.
There simply can’t be any evolution in any personal or collective endeavours without an eye for one’s own shortcomings and a healthy amount of self-doubt, which as frustrating as it may be , I’m personally prepared to take with me to the grave. Calling a half empty glass half full is one thing, but calling an almost empty glass almost full is simply sad… and this attitude seems sometimes to be almost omnipresent.
I mentioned to you once that I’m a great admirer of Bill Bruford as a drummer and composer of both jazz and rock music, he’s been at it for 40 years, and reached some lofty heights and yet in answer to one question on his web site, he says this;
10) What are some of your favourite albums that you’ve recorded?
Given that I’m not much in love with anything I’ve done, I’ll grudgingly admit that a couple of albums a decade, irrespective of my particular contribution, seem to have "legs", and some sort of coherency in their vision which enables them to stand apart from their contemporaries. "Close to the Edge" from Yes,and King Crimson’s "Red" in the 70s, and "Discipline" and "Absent Lovers" in the 80s, are perhaps somesuch. Also "One of a Kind" by Bruford, and Earthworks first and current CD, "A Part, and yet Apart" were milestones upon a particular path for me. Listening back to old efforts is a bit like looking back through the family photo album; you’re mostly just embarrassed not only by the terrible jeans you wore, but by the fact that you didn’t appear to know they were terrible!
When I first read it I was pretty surprised, but on reflection I understood what he meant, and realised that most of the artists and musicians that I admire,( the few I’ve met), take a similar relative view of where they are in the great whole, it’s not a pretence of modesty. This is a someone who continually left bands that were bringing in sometimes enormous incomes, in order to follow his own muse .
As for Ouspenski. He remains for me something of an enigma. I got about halfway through a book of his years ago and actually had to stop because I found his model of eternal rebirth so profoundly depressing, and also such an ungrounded poke in the dark. Honestly,.. the idea of dying and ‘immediately’ being re-awakend to a birth in the same place, same time, same parents,same entire life until death and then to do it all over once again and again ad infinitum ?? It seemed then to make the universe even more a mockery than I’d ever suspected. Since you mentioned him here , I looked him up again and am prepared to consider that there are some subtleties that I missed all those years ago,and that I misunderstood a lot,.. but I don’t know, I’ll have to read it all again,… even if it is all just a poke in the dark, it’s fascinating stuff.
Lynda,.. don’t be ashamed of your doubts, you’re in the best of company.
Jose , Thanks for your time and effort in taking on the large, difficult and ultimately most important subjects in your blogs.
on Sunday, September 24th, Mark said
Doubt, uncertainties, and questioning, all are what make art worthwile. I think it important to embrace them, not fight them. They are what drives one to continue. Without them why bother. I try to get my students to undrstand that the uneasiness they feel during a work is what keeps you on your toes, keeps you thinking and feeling and working. I hope to never loose those feelings, I hope never to be to confident and comfortable with my painting, if that should happen then I will find another occupation. But I work as hard at keeping those feelings as I do at my painting, because they are important to my work.
on Saturday, September 23rd, jose said
Oh, what the heck, why be afraid? Here's the final stuff I was holding back [but Michael has mentioned prophets and Lynda, religious doubts]. O goes on to say:
'The aim of Art is [the search for beauty], just as the aim of religion is the search for God and truth. And exactly as Art stops, so religion stops also as soon as it ceases [to search] for God and truth, thinking it has found them.'
And at the end of that chapter: '... the aim of even purely intellectual systems of philosophy and science consists not in giving Man a certain data of knowledge but in the raising of Man to such a height of thinking and feeling as to enable him to pass to those new and higher forms of knowledge which Art and religion approach more nearly.' '... A complete Art unites in itself Art, Philosophy, Religion and Science.'
Now that I've transcribed for you the whole book the publishers will probably sue me.
on Saturday, September 23rd, josé said
I’m finding it increasingly awkward to respond to comments to my own blogs in the form of another comment. I feel as if I want to control its direction or attract further attention when the message has already been posted and the comments, or lack thereof, should be left to you guys, visible and invisible. But then there’s the desire to thank you and to share further thoughts your comments have awakened and I don’t want to wait until my next blog.
Further along that same book by Ouspensky lies another quote that I think is in tune with the comments you have all submitted so far [the essence of the message is more likely to get through if we don’t get tangled up and stumble over too narrow an understanding of one word: beauty]:
‘Art serves [beauty], i.e., emotional knowledge of it’s own kind. Art discovers beauty in everything and compels Man to feel it and therefore to [know]. Art is a powerful instrument of knowledge of the noumenal world: mysterious depths, each one more amazing than the last, open to the vision of Man when he holds in his hand this magical key. But let him [only think] that this mystery is not for knowledge but for pleasure in it, and all the charm disappears at once. Just as soon as Art begins to take delight in that beauty which is already [found], instead of [the search for new beauty] an arrestment occurs and art becomes a superfluous aestheticism, encompassing Man’s vision like a wall.’
The words [in] are originally in italic but I’m not sure the formatting will hold once I post this.
on Saturday, September 23rd, Michael Fornadley said
Have always considered the artist with the same calling as a prophet, ordinary people given a gift, whether a blessing or curse would depend on what they did with it. The notion of any individual having a soul is not popular now in today's world, let alone a spirit. Too many questions to answer to why we were put on this earth, are we masterfully created or a product of chance. Much easier to eat, drink and be merry than ask or search for some tough answers to questions that have been pondered for thousands of years. As artists it is in our craft to study these observations that others have left us. Not that all of them have answers but at least they are attempting to reach out beyond our daily routine of existance. Even a novice in front of a great piece of work can understand the passion, energy and force that the artist has put into it.
To understand why we are creating art when everything around us says it is a waste of time. Far and few of us are going to obtain the fame and fortune of what society is being successful. Study the life history of the old/new testament prophets, the kings and rulers of their day loved the false prophets who flattered and appeased egos. Much like today it is easier to obtain glory and fame with a pleasant message, never rock the boat, being a team player. The real prophets were the ones thrown into the pit, stoned or ridiculed. In other words life would of been alot easier if they softened their message.
on Friday, September 22nd, Lynda Lehmann said
Thank you for the honest and well-written blog, Jose. You have expressed yourself cogently and brought up many important questions. I love the quote from Ouspensky, whom I have not read.
For me, the bottom line is that I feel all the ageless and timeless doubts of the human condition. I feel doubts about the course of human events, the paths of governments and nations. I feel doubts about religion and doubts about Western medicine. Doubts about the nature of just about everything, including and not least, my own creativity.
But there's one thing I know for certain: doing art lifts me above doubt and despair and gives me, sometimes, indescribable joy. Even in my artistic failures, I feel I see glimpses of something wonderful: it's what I like to think of as "the infinite potential of the universe."
So regardless of the course my artistic journey may take, and regardless of whether my body of work will be judged to have some intrinsic meaning for one or more people, or perhaps none beyond my own subjectivity, I am deeply moved by and grateful for the experience of making art!
on Friday, September 22nd, Ellen Fisch said
Jose, you put on the page thoughts that are usually in my mind, but not well defined. Your writing is as beautiful and sensitive as your images are. I am in constant doubt. I begin to work with an idea, not an image in my mind and the work starts to evolve. Often the work takes me to a place that I had not initially imagined. The journey is usually a strange balance of the highest high and the lowest low. The very best moment comes about five minutes before the piece is completed and then, when it is done, dispair. When I see my work after it is finished, I feel a total detachment from it....wondering sometimes, who did the piece! It is always the NEXT that drives me on.
My other dilemma is why I am creating art at all. When I tell people that I am an artist, a very broad term, they usually say:"It's great to do something that you enjoy!" I have gotten tired of telling others that art is not an enjoyable passtime for me. It is a compulsion. When I was 4, I decided to be an artist (again- whatever that means)after seeing Fantasia. I was always drawing...in my own world. I have spent the last 54 years doing what I set out to do. That is probably my great accomplishment. There were many times when I had to choose to continue, but there was never any real choice. Now, I ask myself what it all means.
I guess I just want to continue to do whatever I can to improve my work. I am certain of one thing: striving for improvement is worth it. Your blog brought into focus a really important point: perhaps it is time to try to put more balance into my time and to try to understand....
on Friday, September 22nd, Matt said
Salient points Jose of which I often ponder.
As we recently joked Jose one thing for certain is that nothing is for certain other than taxes and death.
on Friday, September 22nd, walt said
beautiful work Jose. Nuff said.
on Thursday, September 21st, Brad said
As you say, Jose, "An artist must be a clairvoyant - he must study the hidden side of life and learn to see what others fail to see - and a magician - he must possess the gift of making others see what they cannot fathom by themselves."
How easy it is for me to be one or the other. Most often, I believe in the power of Clairvoyance, but I'm simply a weakling when it comes to impressing my magic upon others. I don't even try anymore. Perhaps my glass is half empty. I shant murder, I shall labor, I better improve my prayer!
Thanks for your introspection, Jose. It's "Beyond Batik!"
I think we all agree that in our work we face constant doubts, ask heaps of questions and end up with hardly any certainties. Doubting and questioning is what keeps us busy – the certainty is merely an illusion we run after… and hopefully never reach. Our work is the register of our quest. 
