Replies: 55 Comments
on Sunday, July 30th, josé freitas cruz said
A resounding response as always, Paul. A great blog and sound advice.
on Saturday, July 29th, Nicholas said
why do you think da Vinci, Monet, Hopper, Kahn
is a good artists? it is just opinion, nothing more.
So paint on, for you, no one else. , sunday artist on your sunday easel with your sunday brush,
or turn your brains =ON= and make others think you better than da Vinci
on Tuesday, July 25th, olga said
David, I totally agree with you in this approach. I grew up in the country where it was put in our mind that money are not MOST important. But doing trade with other artists one has to understand that they may think differently and be in different financial situations(for instance, for someone it's a problem to pay for the shipping). Want you or not, money come to the play. Explicitly or implicitly. We discussed this topic a lot on the forum.
on Tuesday, July 25th, David Jay Spyker said
Concerning artists trading works with each other:
Monetary value does not always need to enter into the trade. What really makes a trade fair, is if both artists walk away with the feeling of getting the better end of the deal.
As an artist, I love art, and I love collecting art as much as I love creating art. To live with another artist's work is a wonderful priviledge.
on Sunday, July 23rd, Brad Michael Moore said
Margaret,
One reason for all the short hits is all the spiders and bots scouring the WWW to mark our pages for the search engines.
Paul,
My largest One Artist Show was at the National Museum in Guadalajara. It came about via influence - knowing the right people in the art & ad community at the time. The curator didn't even choose the works - I simply had an understanding of how much space I had available (which was ample), and there was also the consideration that I use a local framer. I printed my images at home - and carried them in the same box the unexposed paper had once been in. It took me several months and more to put the show together. A friend loaned me his condo overlooking a golf course. Down the street was a kingpin with lions and tigers in his well-protected yard of ironworks. Overall, it was a success, I ate things that should have made me sick, but didn't. Finally, I had the joy of living in another culture, and I picked up the street-speak well. Seven months later I was treated in the USA for parasites that came home with me one and day decided they didn't like Jote Cola - but that's another story...
I've always considered my own Brick & Mortar - and if I did go that way - I wouldn't care if my friends entered or not - it is always about my vision and those works that fit or amend that judgment. Thanks for another engaging blog.
on Saturday, July 22nd, Andrew said
Michael, how about looking at a high mountain with three peaks, and climbing it to reach all three? The first one's work you're satisfied with, the second is finding a public that appreciates your vision, and the third is making a living off it. They're goals, maybe unreachable, but if we set our sights on them in the begining, isn't it sort of giving up to be satisfied just reaching one?
Rejection is going to be there, like trying all the mountain paths that don't reach the top. Perseverence is what will get you up the parts most people fail to climb, some even staring at them and saying, 'no, that's just too tough for me...' You can sit in the harbor, and say, 'my what a nice boat I've built', or you can sail out into the big waves and see if you can handle them.
on Saturday, July 22nd, Michael Fornadle said
Freedom means that you will never be able to sell, still do it and do not give a hoot what people think of you or your work. There are actual artists out there that have attained this state, most would be defined as crazy, disillusional or a loser as defined by our society. Can remember a fellow artist at one of my first shows ask me they believed that they might sell, I stated that they were made not to sell. Living in a fantasy? Who knows but I never have and probadly never will just rely on my painting to provide financial support for myself and family. Strange thinking but the idea of staying in a large studio in a major city and do art 24/7 never has appealled to me, in fact it would bore me to tears. Maybe it is that I am too well adjusted not to be chasing this standard of success, just study some of the lives of these demi-gods of art and truly see how many were just plain miserable individuals.
On this rejection issue, never take it personally, have you ever finished a piece of work satisfied and the next day looked at it and thought it was a piece of junk. Same thing happens to curators, gallery owners and juriors, it is a crap shoot, had pieces rejected one year and the following year win prize money with the same exact piece of work. It is part of being human, till we all become robots, computers or all knowing beings we got to live with it.
on Saturday, July 22nd, Jerry said
My art school taught us this:
"If you have five people looking at your work, and all five like it, then you did something wrong!"
Not only did this challenge us to do great work that makes an effect, it also prepared us well for rejection.
on Friday, July 21st, Paul Dorrell said
Kumiko: Glad you enjoyed the subject at hand. It's a common occurrance, yet rarely discussed except in terms of despair or anger--which is natural. But I feel it can also be an opportunity for learning, and growing as an artist, if one chooses to take it that way.
Ryan: I will indeed address that subject in another column. I believe my experiences therein may prove useful. If not, you can always have me fired.
Wystful: You're welcome.
Olivier: You rascal, you actually have many sides. Please place no limits.
Lynford: I admire your guts, candor, and ability to recognize what really matters.
CR Jonsson: By god yes the real experience is in the creation. The next one is in watching the impact it has on people--assuming you can get it in front of them.
Margaret Stone: Profound observations, especially about how the world is rebelling against our destructive tendencies. I haven't got a thing to add to that. Who knows what the end of the story will be? One thing's sure: we'll have earned it either way.
Kelly: Your words couldn't ring more true, at least from what I've seen.
Now if you'll excuse me, it's evening here and I've got a date with a pair of rollerblades, then after that, with a glass of bourbon.
on Friday, July 21st, Kelly Borsheim said
This conversation about rejection, showing, selling, and creating is always interesting. Sometimes it seems we get caught up so much in the economical end of it, we forget the emotional tie. For me, I produce slowly. I wish it were not so, but I get lost in trying to create exactly the form that I want -- no flat bodies, but full, fleshy forms, for example. I put a lot of thought into my work and I spend most of my life alone producing it.
Yes, rejection hurts because, in a way, it is personal. We learn to take what feedback we can, weigh it against our own vision of ourselves, our work, and our goals, and disregard what we disagree with. Every rejection is an opportunity for growth. [Of course, sometimes we do not want so much opportunity :0) but there is no life without engaging activity.]
But I digress. Regarding selling: While I love the kudos from friends, families, and strangers; And while I think about and sometimes value criticisms from my peers; And while I do create art from my mind and heart which has meaning for me, I am touched by the actual connection granted me when someone is moved enough to actually purchase one of my pieces. As a full-time artist, this purchase not only allows me to function as a financially responsible citizen, it is an additional emotional support. Someone is telling me, whether I am priviledged enough to meet that buyer or not, that he appreciates what I do in a very real way. Like it or not, our culture expresses value in terms on time and money.
A buyer of my work has given me an emotional connection that is not quite the same as other relationships that I have. He gets me - even if only a little bit. As someone who spends most of my time working alone, it eases the occasional loneliness to know that I am doing something of service to someone else and that my own personal language is understood and appreciated. I need that.
on Friday, July 21st, Olga said
Kumiko, Yes...it's not easy to trade. But it's better without money involved in this case. My colleague and his wife were at my show and they saw the prices. So I did know approximately her prices (I also visited her exhibition).
on Friday, July 21st, Kumiko said
Olga,
Regarding your question -- “yes”
Actually, I sold one piece (a triptych – 3 small-sized acrylic paintings on illustration board) to my brother-in-law and I know he loves the piece. He asked me to sell it to him many times and I refused for a number of years. Actually, he borrowed it from me and displayed it in his house for a long time, but I finally got it back a few years ago when I moved to the house I live now. Just two months ago, he came by and started negotiating the price for it! I was convinced by his intentions and he was able to buy it. Anyway, it was an older painting. Now he wants to buy one of my newer paintings from my Japanese series, which is not for sale yet until the entire series has been completed. I really want to see these paintings in the same series all together in the one space and sale all at the same time at the right gallery AND right location. I told him he should wait until then. Since most of my new paintings from the series are not for sale yet, I have showed my new paintings in museums where I can list them as just “NFS”. But still people ask me to sell them and I feel bad to say “NFS”. For this reason, I made giclée prints for sale and they have started selling. When the owner of the gallery where I am showing currently contacted me for a group show, I told her as usual the paintings in the series are NFS yet. But unlike other galleries, she allowed me to display giclée prints if I include some originals from other series so I agreed with the contract to show 4 giclée prints and 2 originals at her gallery. So, I am happy with the situation right now :-)
Olga, I don’t know about trading artwork between artists…honestly I don’t like the idea, because each artist has different values and prices. What do you do if the price of your piece the person is interested to buy and the price of his wife’s artwork that you are interested are totally different in value and price? How do you deal with the difference between the prices to make a fair trade?
on Friday, July 21st, Mark R Brockman said
I never said I though you where hurt by rejection Andrew, it just seemed to me your words expressed anger. If I am wrong, I am wrong. It is hard to get across our true feelings here, my own sense of humor is often mistaken for other emotions here.
Andrew we do agree on a great deal as is apparent in your last comment (as it should be we just approch it differently and express it differently). I extend a hand of friendship and hope we will have many other debates ahead of us.
on Friday, July 21st, Andrew said
Oh, come on Mark, there's nothing in what I say that should make you think I'm feeling hurt by a little rejection. Light? I feel the incredible lightness of being today, and almost every other day as well. If I sound angry, it's because I'm passionate about what I believe in, and not frustrated, but sort of on a high. I don't paint, I sculpt, and I take so long doing it that the sales part is not even in my mind while I'm making the work. I try to concentrate on each step, not on selling, and there's tons of me in what I make. I do think about how a viewer will react, and because of this the themes I choose are those I find very current in our collective lives. I forget about them after I've started the physical task, all the same I'm aware they're the reason I'm doing a piece. Did you ever read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence'? There's a section in there where the author talks about how a whole task is done better if concentration is one hundred percent on each step, like to turn a screw, concentrate on keeping the screwdriver at a perfect right angle to the screw, being careful about how much force you're using, finish not too tight, not too loose...but perfectly. Forget about imagining how great the bike's going to feel flying down the road and concentrate on each tiny detail of the work you're doing.
When you cook, the process is the fun part, true, but what about the presentation to your guests? What about the satisfaction you get knowing they're experiencing exquisite sensations as they first taste what you've made? This part is just a new section of the whole path from grocery store to after dinner drinks. In all, I think there's a lot of things we agree about, but the discussion lets me learn something, and I'm hoping it does the same for you. It's your opening comment, that I'd like to see say,
"So paint on, for yourself, and for those who find vision in your work"
on Friday, July 21st, Margaret Stone said
The world is blowing itself up as mother nature protests and countries protest. Perhaps the fine art of leisurely exploration is lost in an unconscious rush to beat the odds before it all disappears. It seems to be the current way of the world. Now, CRJonsson said, below, “Then came the revelation... if masterpieces by Rembrandt couldn't grab and hold the average museum visitor then how could I complain about the folks coming to my shows and not paying attention to my own artworks longer?”
I check out my statistics on absolute arts and find it interesting that although there may be as many as 1000+ hits in a day, it is not often that an IP stays on my site longer than a minute. Occasionally, but the statistics on that are nothing to brag about. I felt badly about this, you know, less than. To me it seemed a form of rejection that very few people would look at work on my site for more than a few seconds. I gave it some thought, a lot of thought. I realized that there are 22,000 artists on this site and maybe 140,000 works. That is a lot of art to browse through.
We concern about people not looking at/buying our art, where to put it, how to show it, etc, rejection, and whether we create for ourselves or to show and share with others. It really is subjective.
Basically, I think we are inundated with images in the news, on TV, in advertising, on the computer and Internet, and in the rush of contemporary living, perhaps that is creating an ADD (attention deficit disorder) culture, or one of highly selective attention, at least in this country. We create our artworks. That creative urge pushes it progeny into the world as an extension of self and most of us want to share that expression with others. No one wants that rejected. But that is the way of it. There will be acceptance. And there will be rejection. I don’t think there are any answers. Excellent blog, Paul. And a buffet of good comments.
on Friday, July 21st, Mark R Brockman said
Andrew I think you are taking all this to seriously. You also sound a bit angry, frustrated over a simple discussion on rejection, what does this say about you, Andrew?
I asked the quesstion you mention because maybe artists need to find other ways to sell then just galleries - this has nothing to do with the type of art one creates, or wether one should paint for money or not - and maybe avoid some of that rejection.
I think too that an artist can paint for themself, still like to sell the work (after all I have the largest Mark Brockman collection in the world and need space) but where selling is only secondary to painting. I also cook (treating it as an art form) I am always pleased when others like my creations, but I cook first for my enjoyment and not compliments. Again I think one can create first for thier own spirit and still want to sell without the idea of selling first. Besides if you think of creating art as a service, are you not doing a diservice to the buyer if doing the work wasn't more important to you then the buyer (orit is just to make money)? Also I believe a lot of this stems from one's reason for creating. I paint for the act of painting, not the outcome. If a painting works, wonderful, if it does not, OK, on to the next one. The physical act of moving paint around is what gets me going, not wether I will create a masterpiece that others will fight over to buy (not that that is likely to happen).
Lighten up Andrew, enjoy the work not the outcome, paint for you and your spirit, if you have something to say that will connect with others it will happen if you try to do so intentionaly or not. On the flip side you could create work that you feel will be a service to others and still be wrong about what you think that is. Why? Because no matter how hard you argue the point against painting for yourself, if you where not, you probably wouldn't be painting at all.
But in the end all this discussion is only opinion and we all have them. No one is totally right and no one is totally wrong. My opinion should not determine what others do or think nor will others opinion do that to me.
Create.
on Friday, July 21st, Matt said
It's nice to read so many varied comments.
As Paul suggests nobody wants rejection; but as he says it is part of the deal so get used to it. Nevertheless, I think we all want our work to be quantified whether or not we make art for the sake of it, the display of it or the sale of it. And, if we're completely honest, our expectations tilt toward a positive outcome because we believe our work should be held at some level of esteem.
In the end, as Mark and others have said, it's all subjective. But rejection still sucks no matter where it comes from. Yet, as was said, you have to try to somehow push on.
Thanks Paul for sharing your perspectives as a gallery owner. I often find them very useful to learn from.
on Friday, July 21st, Andrew said
I have some, but first I want to address the issue of the artist's place in the world. Entertainment throughout history has often gone into areas totally outside the arts. What about those gladiator spectacles that drew thousandsa, or public executions, or jousting festivals? The arts have always been second to the big crowd pleasing events. While all of Paris was drinking wine and eating cheese, the impressionists were drawing infinitely small crowds compared to what was happening around them.
Everyone here seems to be speaking of how their art is done to please themselves. What about art as a sort of service profession? If you don't do it to earn a living, then you can hardly call yourself a professional, can you? And seeking to please others is not really selling out, though some will say it is. It is what great chefs do when they have raised the level of culinary skill to an art.
Please a gallerist bent on selling? That's selling out. Alternatives? Get a wider public interested in art by giving them something they understand, produced with an eloquence that renders it above the run of the mill. You don't need to make barn paintings to sell to New Englanders to enrapture a wider public. You just need to come out of your navel gazing state and try to conceive ideas with a wider appeal than just the artspeak variety done one more boring time.
It's interesting that you, Mark, ask if anyone has ideas about reaching out, when you claim you do your art for no one but yourself. Could it be that your creativity, your spark of genius, can be intentionally channeled into to the production of something that others can easily find themselves in dialogue with? That might just be the answer...a humble, other-serving art form.
on Friday, July 21st, Mark R Brockman said
This has got to be my last comment (boy I have been spending to much time on this computer). This may not be on point but yet I think it has some bearing on all this. I believe we as artists must come to grips with our placement in the world. Art is seldom the crowd gatherer it used to be when people of all walks of life went to see what those crazy Impressionists are going to show next. Going to the Salon to view art was a form of entertainment. No we have TV, movies and video games. Art in general does not have the draw (excuse the unintended pun) it once had. So what does this mean in regards to this blog? Only that when you add the above issue to the fact that there are more artists today then ever before the compitition is vast, so rejection has to be more commonplace. Perhaps what we artists need to do is to work with the system but also to come up with creative ways to be out there without the system. Alas I am not to creative in that area (though I do think about it). Any ideas people?
on Friday, July 21st, CR Jonsson said
This is a great blog! I enjoyed reading everyone's comments on getting that elusive show.
I have found that showing my work is a real rollercoaster of emotions. At first I'm elated to see my work on the walls of a gallery....... then this feeling wears off rather quickly and I feel really down.
Then it's back to the studio and my normal grind.
Yes, I want to share my work with the world, so I continue showing. But the real experience is in the creation itself and not the rather superficial experience of showing the work.
I had a real awakening some years ago at the National Museum in Stockholm. I sat gazing and thinking about the simply sublime paintings of Rembrandt on the wall before me. I studied them for perhaps 45 minutes. In that period of time maybe 50 or 60 people floated by.... giving a quick glance at these masterpieces. A few seconds glance... and then they were done.
This was at first disheartening for me. I could hardly believe folks wouldn't want to visit these works for at least some minutes.
Then came the revelation... if masterpieces by Rembrandt couldn't grab and hold the average museum visitor then how could I complain about the folks coming to my shows and not paying attention to my own artworks longer?
Therein lies the absurdity in showing art! However, I recommend showing anyway. It's our only link with the outside world.
on Thursday, July 20th, lynford said
i have rejected the gallery scene for over 40 years with no regrets; it frees me to creatively explore and express that which consummes me; marketeers rarely are true artists;
opinion is whimsical;
when work is true it eventually has an audience;
for years i struggled; fortunately i now sell to private collectors (referred by someone i trust) who, by word of mouth, seek me out, respect my desire for privacy and know i, in turn, also respect their's;
$$$ now helps but does not rule me; i remain focused; when i'm gone if there is a legacy, fine; if not, who cares!
on Thursday, July 20th, ryan-mcginess-fan said
It seems that there is an unfair and sometimes artificial barrier in the field - as though getting accepted required membership into an exclusive, networked club that has no bearing on quality or worth. If social networking is going to be the key to getting accepted, there are going to be quite a few talented people who never have their work seen. Perhaps you could address that issue in a future post?
on Thursday, July 20th, olivier said
Well another one by our actor publisher. I appreciate the fact that you removed your photo of yourself. As usual a good subject and my attention you get. Now what are we learning from that? If you are not as good as you think keep going time will change? I beleive gallery select artist they think or dream they will make money out of it. I do not think artist paint for money at all, it could become a subject of necessity but not the driving cause. I have been refusing two gallery recently. I just do not have the time for that game, it is happen to be bowring also. I think gallery have to find a way to be more attractive for the public and the artist as well, be more creative. More funny too. Not this kind of pseudo intelectualism acting so seriously close on a small world of conviction.
On my side I cannot mix creativity and business side. I have customers mostly from relation, past career and luck, but to be fully creative I need to concentrate on it. It is just time consuming and like many of you 70 hours a weeks is just never enought. For selling your art I beleive shows are the best, expensive but efficient. And here you can find contact to work with the gallery who are really professional. Depending of your goal, your price range the other one are just a lost of time.
on Thursday, July 20th, Olga said
Interesting point you rised, Kumiko. So, if you see that friend or family member really love your work, do you sell it to him/her? It's a big dilemma for me,
some of my colleagues wants to buy my works but I keep resisting. With one person I found a good desision - his wife is also an artist, so I suggested a trade.
on Thursday, July 20th, Kumiko said
Paul, thank you for bring up the interesting subject that is a familiar experience for an artist and input for rejected artists.
I have experienced only two rejections from galleries so far for the same reason, but it affected a lot to me. It was years ago after obtaining my BFA from a University. The reason of the rejection from the gallery owner was that my paintings were too different in theme and style from other artists who displayed in his gallery and was different from his clients’ preference even though he liked my paintings. I understood and agreed with him at the time. Later I thought it is so awkward. I learned how to develop my own style something different from others when I was acquiring a BFA degree, and for winning awards in competitions in my school years. Having one’s own style that is different from others is one of the important factors to winning and the reason I could win some awards. But then I was rejected because my paintings were too different from others. Also, I realized that my painting style does not easy fit in residential homes in this area (Colorado) as a decorative work, which means that it is not functional for such use. Then, I asked to myself, “should I paint something to fit to the market’s preference such as a pretty landscape or flowers?” and my mind answered “No” immediately for the question. I’m painting for my satisfaction—not for the buyers’ and especially not for the people who are just looking for an artwork as a decoration or something to be matched with their furniture or wall color. If an artist creates artwork to fit in the preference of the market rather than what he/she really wants to create, then can you still call him/her an “artist”? I know some people do it and I think it is more commercial than fine art.
This rejection gave me some thought. However, I create whatever is valuable to me and I’m expressing my point of view through my art. By doing so it gives me satisfaction and meaning of life. A few months after the rejection, one of my artwork sold from my studio and the client redecorated whole her living room around my piece. If a person loves their artwork, they should be ready to make some changes to their room to match the artwork and not the other way around.
Like as Mark mentioned, I have rejected some offers from galleries as well with some similar reasons as Mark except for one – I didn’t like the owner’s dishonest eyes that made me feel like keeping away from him. Anyway, my point is that both artist and gallery are looking for some artwork or gallery space to fit their taste and needs---making the artist’s work look better or what will sell from the gallery side. I may have many rejections in the future and it will not be easy to get used to it and it is likely to hurt my pride, but I’m not afraid of it. Rejection doesn’t mean that my artwork has bad quality just like rejection doesn’t mean that the gallery is bad---just different tastes and purposes.
By the way Paul, I have the same policy in my business as you said that you never carry the work of a friend in your galley …it’s best to keep good friendship, isn’t it? I never deal with my friends in business since my husband and I had bad experiences with it that ended up with losing good friendships. Also, I don’t like to sale my artwork to friends nor family members unless they truly loved it.
on Thursday, July 20th, Mark R Brockman said
Olga, nothing wrong with where you are showing. I have shown in restaurants, i fact as lately as last month (I have a dealer who sets up shows in the resaurant as well as other places and we are developing a business relationship). I have shown in schools, collages, hallways, and outdoor festivals (don't like those). My statement was to say that at some point in ones career it is nice to be able to be a bit picky as to where your work will show, at the same time a place that does not seem to be a good spot could be a great place. Good luck Olga.
on Thursday, July 20th, Paula said
I completely agree with Paul's comments in this area – and other people have really made some good additions. I've been following Paul for a few years now, and he really has some excellent insights that he generously shares, and this is just one gem. Regional midwest artists are truly blessed to have such a outspoken and staunch supporter. The one negative opinion by the likely wacko listed in this thread should be completely dismissed by any serious artist.
As an artist, you have to endure a lot of harsh, uninformed comments, but if you analyze them and distill them to their core to see if you think you might gain any real information from them, you can try to use those to improve your art and your resolve, then you can use the criticism to your advantage. One suggestion in presenting to a gallery, would be to do a site visit possibly beforehand to see if you think your artwork might fit well in types of work that are present or adds something. You might also try to send snail mail inquiries, and maybe list your website if you have one – I read a while back that most people may be more inclined to check a website over a hardcopy portfolio. Another resource for tips about approaching galleries that I’ve found is the annually updated “Artist’s and Graphic Designer’s Market” guide.
If you are trying to improve your artwork and want impartial critiques - which just about every serious artist should have occassionally - check out the wetcanvas artist community website - it's great, and there is a ‘critique’ channel, and there is a lot of support from the current 85,000 worldwide members – membership is free. For me, my ability to endure and use criticism was really honed by my time at KCAI.
I agree with making your artwork to please yourself. That's what I've really been trying to do for a few years now, and to my complete shock and delight, in the last few months, two people who were complete strangers to me have seen and purchased my artwork from this site, so I have continuing hope for more sales in the future.
If you have a creative spirit and express it in making artwork, it seems as that act does become a necessary activity for mental health. For me, it almost seems like a brain exercising activity that uses different neural pathways, like juggling or brushing your teeth with your off-hand. I’ve noticed sometimes when I’m doing plein-air painting, it almost seems like an activity that produces endorphins, and my sense of time is really altered – hours can pass by, and the only sense of time I really feel is from the sun changing position.
on Thursday, July 20th, Wystful 1 said
Thanks, this is incredible information. I love to draw with a pencil, in fact I just completed one sketch today and put it up on my blog.
I appreciate all the info you have here.
on Thursday, July 20th, Andrew said
What I mean, M, is, that I firmly believe art has to made for other people to see, and not just for the artist themselves. David's diatribe about rejection and how he's not going to take it any more brought me to say what I said. I don't think I missed his point at all, it's just that I don't agree with it.
on Thursday, July 20th, Olga said
Thank you, guys, for the explanation. It's good to know.
BTW, Mark, right now, 2nd month I have a show in the place where you, probably, would not recommend to deal with. It's here in Newark, DE, in a big (and almost alwasy empty) coffe house. First month, June, I've had 27 paintings, this months - 30 paintings hanging there. Couple of small paintings (14x11 inches) were sold to my big surprise. I've got even an e-mail msg from one buyer, who came to Newark for a business trip from California. I can say I was happy that I spent some of my time getting this show - just to hear that someone loves my art and paid for having it. Another "strange" place were I have my paintings exhibited almost permanently, it's a Russian bookstore in Philadelphia. It's convenient for me to have my works in a safe place since my apartment is small and soon we'll hit a space problem (we already have 2 piano in our living room which is a part of my "studio").
on Thursday, July 20th, M said
Andrew, you are a pretty smart guy I think. I'm surprised you missed David's point; it's a cheap shot to say this:
"David, if you want to believe you are a Manet, or any of the other famous artists you mentioned, then I guess in your own mind, you are."
on Thursday, July 20th, Mark R Brockman said
Olga, Paul has explained it. It is the same as drinking vodka and cognac with those who might, I emphasize MIGHT, be able to help you. Rather then then do that I let my work speak for itself.
I would like to make another point here in regards to rejection. When one is starting out in this business often the artist will jump at agreeing to show thier work almost anywhere. I know I did this myself. But at times it is a good idea for the artist to say "no" to the gallery, dealer or who ever. I have been approached a few times and I have rejected them for various reason, not for spite or revenge, but usually because I felt the display area was not very good or the gallery already had way to many artists showing, or my work just didn't fit in with the other work in a positive way. My point is that an artist should be careful and if the deal seems wrong say no, yes reject them, but for good reasons. So see there is hope:)
on Thursday, July 20th, Paul Dorrell said
Olga: To hob-nob and schmooz means making social/ business connections, whether with sincerity or artificiality. I find the former works best, although I don't engage in this much. At our stage, our reputation speaks for us. I'd rather go canoeing.
Regarding work that we carry, if I can't feel passionate about it on some level, I won't carry it. I will on occasion display work by an emerging artist who I feel needs someone to believe in him/her, even if I know I likely won't sell it. Why? This helps that artist to develop. But I never carry the work of a friend unless it has true merit. Bad business otherwise.
on Thursday, July 20th, Olga said
Mark, could you explain me what does it mean "hob-nob and schmooz"? Money? or what? I am not surprized at all that there is a "politics" in art as well. It is everywhere but differently expressed. In the biggest degree it was in Soviet Union - everything required connections, drinking vodka and cognac with necessary people and so on. Paul, you owns a gallery, maybe you'll answer my question - have you ever exhibited works of artist who is "a friend of your friend" even you did not like that art much?
on Thursday, July 20th, Ellen Fisch said
An interesting little story: In 1977 I took one on my watercolors to a gallery in a small New Hampshire city. The man who owned the gallery laughted at me and the work. Needless to say, I was crushed, but I continued to paint. In the 1990's, I approached the "new" gallery owner, the wife of the original owner who got the gallery in a divorce settlement. By this time I had been showing and been represented by several other galleries. I successfully sold work in this gallery until it was sold to an employee of the gallery who also showed/sold work there. I received notice of several small sales and then didn't hear from the gallery for several months. I am in NH only seasonally; therefore, on one of my trips, I checked in at the gallery to find my work in a storage room. I kept painting and have found other venues in NH that display my work "front and center." However, the key is that I KEEP PAINTING.
on Thursday, July 20th, fricblum@yahoo.com">F. Ric Blum said
Bang your head against the wall until a pool of blood forms around your ankles... take numerous backstabing from people who pretend to be your friends and other artists afraid of your ability, or afraid of having their own puny little egos threatened... take slow asassination... then maybe, somewhere over the rainbow, someone who owns a gallery will realize that your work is original. But don't expect it, ever.
on Thursday, July 20th, Andrew said
David, if you want to believe you are a Manet, or any of the other famous artists you mentioned, then I guess in your own mind, you are. What your wife thinks is not important. We can be whatever we choose to believe we are, as long as we don't care about what our work looks like to other people. Fine art...Kali technics...Belle arte...Beux artes...these are just words they've come up with to describe things they like, and we can even eliminate them from our vocabulary if we don't like what they mean.
Paul, another short but to the point essay that gets people going. Strong opinions have always been behind high quality artworks, because it's an arena that has little patience for political correctness. You personally are careful not to offend anybody, but your subject draws out the claws!
on Thursday, July 20th, David G. Wilson said
Hahahahahaha. I've gone through all of this crap and I have no intention of enduring any of that anymore. I love to paint and I have been painting for the past thirty-three years. I have never stopped inspite of the rejections and deprecation that I have experienced. I estimate that I have in my possesion, in excess of three maybe four hundred paintings of various sizes. Hell, I don't intend to stop painting. Infact, I can't stop. If I did, my head would explode from suppressing all the new ideas that invade my mind daily. I get them even when I am driving. From my sleep, I jump out of bed and sketch my ideas. The best incident was two or three years ago, my wife and I were traveling back to New York, stopping in small cities for short visits. We were on the sixteenth floor of the Westin Hotel in Savannah Georgia, and at 3:00am I sprang from bed and started sketching an idea that I got for a piece of sculpture. Haha. I am having a laugh because I have so much fun ignoring the neysayers and creating new art at the same time.
Remember, history repeats itself quite often. I was told by a curator that my work was NOT art. Even my wife has told me that "You are no Picasso." Van Gogh experienced similar regections. His mother threw out crates of his work and his brother couldn't sell them. Thomas Couture told Manet that he... "would amount to no more than the Doumier of his day" Today few people know who Thomas Couture is. Infact, he is mentioned only insofar as he was Manet's teacher. That's all. Both Manet and Doumier have surpassed him. Vermeer was forgotten for 200 years. How many people know who Gerome or Meissonier were? They were the darlings of the French Salon. Today, few people know who they are. The arbiters of art today are no different from the jurors of the French Salon of the 19th century. Curators and arbiter of art are always wrong about what posterity will appreciate. I no longer approach galleries, neither do I care to sell my work. They are my children and they shall be the legacy that I leave in this world as evidence that I wa here. I may not be here to get my roses, but I will enjoy them someday, dead or alive.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Mark R Brockman said
Olga, don't believe for a second that when it comes to galleries and juried shows that there are no politics at play, there are. I have been told if I was willing to hob-nob and schmooz those that be I could be better known and make more money, but I chose not to go that route. So be it. But politics abide my girl, believe it.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Paul Dorrell said
Tom: Sure I live in the Midwest, where I help a score of artists make a living, and help several emerging artists break out, including many from the inner city. I've also lived in N.Y., L.A., AK, and Italy, but I'm a Midwestern man to the bone. Please tell us about your work, and what you do to help others. In fact while you're at it, you might consider signing with your website or email address, as the rest of us do. I mean, you ain't got nothing to hide, right?
Karen: Thanks for the observations. Very nice site. Trust life in LA is good. I know many people hate that city, but I've always dug it: no other place like it in the world, especially Venice on a Saturday night.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Karen said
Tom --- Was personally attacking Paul necessary?! If you don't agree with him, that's your perogative. But to attack where he lives & has had a modicum of success indicates you're angry & envious.
Art is so subjective that what 1 finds junk is another's treasure. Rejection is a way of life & love. I think Paul said it best, when he discussed listening to that inner voice.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Tom said
More tripe from some hack-kneed old school gallery in who the hell knows where, mid-western city.
Screw the galleries! They elavate the prices beyond most peoples budget.
Screw the rejection! Who the hell says those galleries know a dang thing!?!
You want to make it as an artist? Buy and study "How to be a Successful Salesman".
Do it yourself you weebies!
on Wednesday, July 19th, Paul Dorrell said
Niles: Very well said. As a writer who happens to be a gallery owner, I've never kept any of the 177 rejections I got before my first book was published, but I remember the more amusing ones. I remember also the blindness they portrayed. As I became older and more experienced, they only made me more determined, confident of my direction. That was a tough transition to make, but without it, I wouldn't be where I am now.
Did I ever feel sorry for myself during those years? Sure, when I was stupid enough to think I had it tough. I've since been to Third World countries, and realized I've never really had it "tough," even all the years I worked 70-hour weeks as we slid toward bankruptcy. That was only opportunity beckoning--even with the rejections.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Niles said
I collect all my rejection letters in a binder, my first, and greatest rejection letter, came from Paula Cooper Gallery in 1977, 29 years ago. I am STILL working,and enjoying every single rejection I recieve. Stop yapping, and get back to work, the world is waiting for you.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Olga said
Andrew..ha-ha. I think you addressed your comment to me, not to Mark. It's me who wrote that I am doing art for myself, and after re-thinking stimulated by your funny comment, I can say that there is a true in your words. Yes, even I am thinking that I paint for myself, of course, I need people to see it and I need to hear their positive:) comments. Only positive, ha-ha.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Mark R Brockman said
Andrew, art can be a form of communication but it does not have to be. One can write poetry only for oneself, one can dance in private. It makes the act no less important. There is meaning in my work but I don't expect and don't care if a viewer gets it, if they come up with thier own idea of the work that's fine. Painting for me is not about communicating with others but with myself. If others get something from it that is wonderful but not neccessary for me to keep creating.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Andrew said
Hey! What's with the ***? My message isn't going to be received if the word s e x isn't in it, and there's nothing obscene about what I'm saying.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Andrew said
Mark, I have a bad feeling about an element of what you're saying. If art is a form of communication, like poetry, like dance, like music, then you need an audience. You are not just doing this for yourself, like *** with an imaginary partner. Isn't the participation of another human being what makes art and *** so special?
on Wednesday, July 19th, Olga said
Mark, I can't tell that my art affects my life in full since I do spend most of my time doing science. But...for sure, art makes me more satisfied, less stressed and, as a result, it keeps me in a good mood in family. That's for sure. I am getting from art that what's missing in my science - I do paint what I want (no boss), I do it when I want and, finally, the result is mine. Isn't it great! Therefore artists have such a tough life and have to fight to be full-time artists - because this is not a JOB, it's a total pleasure. I always thought that I am lucky being a scientist, BUT!- in science there is a lot of so-called politics, plus usually there is a boss. Even bosses in science are always under a presure - to find and provide funding to their people and research.
BTW. I also have to work now:).
on Wednesday, July 19th, Mark R Brockman said
Olga, your remark about it "working for many areas of life" is so very true. This may be a bit off the subject but I believe that when I started to apply my ideas and philosophy of art, and my painting, in my daily life things changed for me. My art, my life, it all became much clearer to me and to use perhaps an over used work I truelly found my center. I always thought my life should effect my art to be a true artist, but for me it was my art that guided my life. Well enough of this, I really do need to get back to the studio, to much time on the computer is not good. Take care all.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Olga said
Ha-ha..Paul. I was smoking after I posted my comment and, in my thoughts, I've made a parallel between romance and artist/gallery "romance". You know, I came to a conclusion that the probability to find a partner for life is much higher that to find a good artist/gallery match:), first of all because of the fact that the number of galleries is significantly lower than the number of artists. Bottom line - rejection is most probable! Acceptance is a good luck:)
on Wednesday, July 19th, Paul Dorrell said
Mark: You hit many nails right on the head. Most people never understand that rejection, sometimes for years on end, is often a part of the process, not detached from it. When you trust your vision, it shouldn't matter in the end.
Olga: Nice to hear from you again. Yes these ideas work for many other areas of life (romance, business, even family), but I'll let you say that instead of me. It sounds better coming that way.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Mark R Brockman said
Your right Olga, which supports my statment that who is good and who is not, is still just the opinion of those who decide who gets into a gallery or show. But some who are famous and are doing well financially but (in my opinion are bad) are also good business men, case in point, Thomas Kincade for one. He is a hack but doing so very, very well (and more power to him).
The whole point is, we as artists should never take the opinion of others to seriously, only our opinion of our work counts.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Olga said
Thanks Paul, great advise. It works for many area of life.
Mark - I do not agree with your "There are a lot of bad artists out there that are well known and respected by many of those in power but are still just bad.". For you they are bad, for someone else they are great....They are just lucky to be seen by right people and came in a right time.
on Wednesday, July 19th, Mark R Brockman said
I have been at this business of making art for over thirty years. I have been rejected many times and expect to be rejected many more. I used to get angry and want to quit, but painting for me is more then exceptance. In fact painting for me has nothing to do with being in a gallery or juried show, it is not awards or compliments, nor money (though that would be nice :) it is the act of painting that drives me.
Paul is right.
When a student of mine that is thinking of showing asks me, "what should I do to start showing my work?" I tell them, "Develope a thick skin." Then I tell them not to paint for money or acclaim, but to paint because it is what they need to do. Now I know we all need money to live, and it is very hard to work at a day job then come home to kids and chores and still find the energy to paint, I did it for over twenty years before I could go full time at my painting and even still I teach painting classes and workshops to help earn money. But if creating is your goal and not being famous, then you will find the time and energy.
Why does rejection no longer bother me to a point of anger or depression (and it used to)? I have confidence in my work and my abilities. Yes there are those who are better then me, and those who are not, but I can only do what I can do today. I also take rejection and use it to make me want to be a better artist, not to prove anything to those who rejected my work but to myself, to say that I am better then that rejection and I do not let rejection controll me.
Besides, no matter what anyone tells you, no matter how educated a juror or gallery owner may be in art, what an idividual picks to hang in a gallery or show, it is ALL opinion. There are a lot of bad artists out there that are well known and respected by many of those in power but are still just bad. There are a lot of artists out there who could be the next da Vinci, Monet, Hopper, Kahn, but will never reach that acclaim because of some one elses opinion.
So paint on, for you, no one else.
Artists have frequently asked me, how does one go about getting accepted by a gallery? Well that’s a complex question, to which there is no easy answer. In fact it’s similar to asking how an unpublished writer goes about getting published. My first answer in either instance? Prepare for rejection. So before we even begin to get into the business of gaining gallery representation, let’s discuss this common experience. 
